View Full Version : Audi winter driving school
Turbo_Bimmer
01-16-2006, 05:46 PM
As Lee posted recently, the Audi club will organise a winter driving school at the Mecaglisse facility on Feb 19th.
Here are the informations I got from Alan Bellavance:
(you must become a member of the Audi club to participate, details on their website)
Audi Winter Driving School
February 19th 2006
Audi Club North America Canada Chapter members are invited to the first Audi Winter Driving School in Eastern Canada. The School will be held on February 19th at the Mécaglisse facility in Notre-Dame-de-la-Merci, about an hour and a quarter north of Montreal, near St. Donat.
Several Audi certified instructors along with the chief instructor at the Mécaglisse facility will guide participants safely through a series of exercises on the specially prepared ice driving courses at Mécaglisse.
The day will begin with a classroom presentation of the theory of driving on ice in the Mécaglisse chalet. Participants will learn the meaning of under-steer and over-steer as well as steer and counter-steer. In addition, the instructor will explain the counter intuitive moves that will allow drivers to master the ice. And everybody will learn to enjoy slip-sliding in a slow motion 4 wheeled dance!
On the skid pad, a 200 foot circle of ice, participants will learn to recognize and master under-steer and over-steer.
The slalom and braking area is where drivers learn to steer and counter-steer to get around a slippery slalom course marked with rubber cones and to brake at the limit under full control.
Drivers get to put all their lessons to good use on a specially designed course, with level changes and a variety of turns.
At noon, a hot lunch will be served around the fireplace in the wood finished chalet with a 180 degree view of the Mécaglisse exercise areas.
Participants will become better and safer winter drivers and they will leave with a better appreciation of their all wheel drive Quattros.
We can only accommodate 30 participants so please register early by going to the ACNA Canada Chapter website at:
www.audiclubna.org/chapters/canada and mailing in the registration form with your check. The cost is $195.00 per participant, with lunch and taxes included.
************************************************************ **********
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Audi Club North America Canada Chapter
Winter Driving School
February 19th, 2006
Location:
The School will be held at the Mécaglisse facility in Notre-Dame-de-la-Merci, approximately one and a quarter hours north of Montreal, just south of St-Donat, on route 125.
Duration:
The School will begin promptly at 9:30 AM and finish at 4:00 PM on Sunday, February 19th, 2006.
Preparation:
Your car should be in good running condition with good brakes and good tires. Snow tires are highly recommended. Be sure to fill your tank before arriving in the morning. Empty the car of loose objects before arriving.
Remember that it will be cold. Dress appropriately, wear boots and bring a warm hat and gloves. Extra layers can be stored in the trunk until needed (if needed!) A hot lunch will be served in the heated chalet. Eat a hearty breakfast before arriving at the facility.
The site is in a relatively secluded area so don’t expect to find shops, restaurants and gas stations nearby.
To participate, you must be a member of the Audi Club North America. To become a member, visit
www.audiclubna.org . All participants will be required to sign two waivers upon arrival at the site.
Registration:
Participant cost: $195.00
The fee includes taxes and a hot lunch for the participant.
Mail the completed registration form and your cheque, payable to ACNA Canada Chapter to:
Alan Bellavance, eventmaster
280 Ayers
Cowansville, Quebec
J2K 5B1
Questions
:
E-mail Alan Bellavance at : a.bellavance@citenet.net
Registration form:
Name:………………………………………………………..
ACNA member no.: ………………………………………...
Address:……………………………………………………..
……………………………………………………...
……………………………………………………...
Office phone:………………………………………………..
Home Phone:………………………………………………..
Cell phone:………………………………………………….
E-mail:………………………………………………………
Hey Michel.
Je ne suis pas sûr mais je pense que la carte de membre du Club BMW est reconnue par le club Audi. Cependant, ceux qui ne sont pas membre chez nous devrons devenir membre avec un ou l'autre des clubs. Il y a une réciprocité entre les clubs BMW, Porsche et audi. Cependant il faudra confirmer avec Alan si la réciprocité s'applique pour cet événement.
yield
01-17-2006, 09:10 AM
En passant Michel je t'ai pas oublié.. des que je reviens je te contact pour ta carte ! :)
bmwqc
01-17-2006, 09:40 AM
Hey Michel.
Je ne suis pas sûr mais je pense que la carte de membre du Club BMW est reconnue par le club Audi. Cependant, ceux qui ne sont pas membre chez nous devrons devenir membre avec un ou l'autre des clubs. Il y a une réciprocité entre les clubs BMW, Porsche et audi. Cependant il faudra confirmer avec Alan si la réciprocité s'applique pour cet événement.
Lee
Alan Bellevance mentioned that the insurance company requires that participants be members (of Audi Club) in order for club to get coverage for the event.
Turbo_Bimmer
01-17-2006, 09:56 AM
I specified to Alan that I was a member of the BMW club and he still required that we get an Audi membership, as an associate member for those who don't own an Audi.
Yield, si tu as la possibilité de faire une carte avant le 5 février, contacte mois, mais j'ai appris que Emre serait instructeur à Ottawa, donc meme si je n'ai pas ma carte, il pourra confirmer que je suis membre du club, n'est-ce pas Emre? :) [...euuuh, I don't know that guy, Michel who? ]
Yield, si tu as la possibilité de faire une carte avant le 5 février, contacte mois, mais j'ai appris que Emre serait instructeur à Ottawa, donc meme si je n'ai pas ma carte, il pourra confirmer que je suis membre du club, n'est-ce pas Emre? :) [...euuuh, I don't know that guy, Michel who?]That all depends on how nice you are. I take my coffee with two cream and no sugar, thanks ;)
Emre
Turbo_Bimmer
01-17-2006, 11:16 AM
OK, I'll let you drive my ix, but beware, you might want to sell the Evo after the experience. ;) I know you're missing your old ix so much:rolleyes:
That all depends on how nice you are. I take my coffee with two cream and no sugar, thanks ;)
Emre
bmwqc
01-17-2006, 11:38 AM
I specified to Alan that I was a member of the BMW club and he still required that we get an Audi membership, as an associate member for those who don't own an Audi.
Whenh the BMW club holds DE, don't we allow members from other clubs to participate (without having to sign up for membership)?
For DEs, don't all the clubs purchase insurance from the same company?
OK, I'll let you drive my ix, but beware, you might want to sell the Evo after the experience. ;) I know you're missing your old ix so much:rolleyes:Actually, I really miss my old iX. I bought it from the original owner, a BMW CCA member and maintenance fanatic. The car only had 80K miles on it and was in top shape. I loved that car and was forced to sell it very cheaply to fund the Evo (long story).
But I have to admit, the Evo handles much better. And the acceleration is breathtaking!
Emre
When the BMW club holds DE, don't we allow members from other clubs to participate (without having to sign up for membership)?Yes, we allow non-members to register for events after all the members have signed up. Most clubs will do the same.
For DEs, don't all the clubs purchase insurance from the same company?Basically, yes. The fact is that this whole insurance thing is a red herring. I've checked with our provider about this and there's absolutely NO rule that states you have to have "members only" events. Insurance coverage is absolutely NOT contingent on the membership status of your participants.
But, many people seem to think they will be better protected by running "members only" events. I guess it's the same false sense of security that leads some chapters to exclude race-prepped cars. All the facts say these measures are a total non-issue...but some chapter execs sleep better at night by pushing these policies. It's the same mentality that makes otherwise sane, intelligent people babble on about how "speed kills" and feel the world is a better place because of 55 mph speed limits.
Emre
[QUOTE=bmwqc]Whenh the BMW club holds DE, don't we allow members from other clubs to participate (without having to sign up for membership)?
QUOTE]
Hi Henry.
Our policy has always been to recognize membership from PCA and Audi Club. We have also allowed members from any club for a first event with us. Let's say that someone from CADL wants to try us, then we will accept his CADL membership (if it is current). But the offer only works once. Next time, that same person shall have a BMW club membership. If the registrant is member of no club, then BMW club membership is mandatory.
I find pretty strange indeed that Audi requests that our members get an Audi club membership. It is certainly not required by the insurance companies. When somebody wants to register to any BMWCCA event (per exemple) and that person is not a member from BMWCCA or PCA, then an extra fee is required. So, Audi's request for an extra membership based on insurance is unfounded. Different club. Different rules.
Andrei
01-20-2006, 11:59 AM
The time spent doing donunts in snowy parking lots and drifting in the corners on circuit Gilles Villeneuve are going to pay off for me.
I am instructing at that event.
So, I am ready for Sunday's event at Mécaglisse with the Audi club. I just RENTED a Mazda Matrix for around $40 + taxes and insurance. I initially wanted to ent a Volvo with 4wd but it was a PITA to locate a Hertz center that had one. So, I had to do with a car totally unknown to me. I am not used to FWD as all my cars are RWD. It has a slush box, my cars have manual trannies. But hey, I will learn the car on the way to Mécaglisse...
I am not used to FWD as all my cars are RWD. It has a slush box, my cars have manual trannies. But hey, I will learn the car on the way to Mécaglisse...Here's a tip: left foot on the brake pedal; right foot on the gas; and, shift gears "manually."
You should be able to keep the car in 2nd for most of the way around. I doubt you'll ever need 3rd. If you keep in in "D" you'll be frustrated as it will constantly try to shift up and down.
By keeping the car in gear and using your left foot on the brakes, you "should" be able to slide the car around a bit. However, even that won't work too well if it's really icy. Hope for hard-packed snow!
Emre
I just spent 30 minutes with the car in the parking lot on the Mount-Royal for a little "acquaintance". Damn, do I hate front wheel drive cars: no throttle steer, no lift throttle oversteer. But the the good thing with this Matrix is that it has a dead pedal.
bmwqc
02-18-2006, 09:35 PM
I just spent 30 minutes with the car in the parking lot on the Mount-Royal for a little "acquaintance". Damn, do I hate front wheel drive cars: no throttle steer, no lift throttle oversteer. But the the good thing with this Matrix is that it has a dead pedal.
Lee,
Don't forget to use the handbrake for a little rear rotation
Andre
02-20-2006, 07:58 PM
I just spent 30 minutes with the car in the parking lot on the Mount-Royal for a little "acquaintance". Damn, do I hate front wheel drive cars: no throttle steer, no lift throttle oversteer. But the the good thing with this Matrix is that it has a dead pedal.
It's definitely a different kettle of fish.
Throttle steer is present, it's just a little different as you're doing it with the other end. On non-lsd cars if you're in around the limit of adhesion if you accelerate, you get understeer and widen the line, if you lift off (and or left foot brake depending on the car) the line will tighten. (Throttle lift oversteer is possible if the car is sprung correctly) Doing so, you can take a set with the wheel and just use the throttle to adjust your line through a corner. You won't get the "ever so slightly crossed up" upon exit feeling when you're on the limit of going quickly and being tail out. (sigh... :rolleyes: ) probably the reason why I prefer rwd over fwd but still fun though.
It's not what you drive but how you drive it.
Not quite sure how the dynamic changes with an lsd as I've yet had the chance to fiddle around with a fwd with an lsd but that shouldn't be a problem with a Matrix.:D
Did you get the 190 hp 1.8 vvti???
~a~
I had a very basic Matrix. No ABS, auto tranny but healthy motor. Not a bad car considering it was an econobox.
bmwqc
02-20-2006, 09:56 PM
I had a very basic Matrix. No ABS, auto tranny but healthy motor. Not a bad car considering it was an econobox.
How was the traction on the ice?
Traction? What traction? That car had 4 season tires with rock hard rubber. I still managed tom have some fun during the morning instructor sessions. The car's overall balance was still very good and I could do a few corners with the tail out.
bmwqc
02-20-2006, 10:52 PM
On the slick icy surface (and without any snow), having snow tires all around wasn't that much of an advantage. Witness all those big Audis.
Traction? What traction? That car had 4 season tires with rock hard rubber. I still managed tom have some fun during the morning instructor sessions. The car's overall balance was still very good and I could do a few corners with the tail out.
LOL! This reminds me of last winter when Lee and I went out to a Mecaglisse lapping day on sheer ice. I was driving the Evo and Lee kept telling me, "come on, man, slide the car!" But on sheer ice, the car just wants to go straight! Even AWD and good snow tires don't help when you're running on damp ice. Without studded tires, you can't really make the car do what you want it to.
Emre
On the slick icy surface (and without any snow), having snow tires all around wasn't that much of an advantage. Witness all those big Audis.
The problem with most of those Audis is that they were very heavy cars and in corners, centrifugical forces would apply. My student had an S6 Touring with 360HP. It was a nice car, but too heavy.
bmwqc
02-20-2006, 11:13 PM
The problem with most of those Audis is that they were very heavy cars and in corners, centrifugical forces would apply. My student had an S6 Touring with 360HP. It was a nice car, but too heavy.
Yeah, but most of those cars out there yesterday were loaded to the hilt with the latest equipment (features) - electronic everything, AWD, traction control, stability control, ABS, premium snow tires. and big price tags. Ouch! Those little dents and cracks on the bumpers from hitting the ice walls must have hurt :o
Yup. I realized on Sunday that if winter driver schools are safer overall becaue of lower speeds, they can be costly in small accidents. Hit a pile of frozen/icy snow, and there goes $2000 of plastic bumper cover or grills. I think trhat perhaps 25% of the cars had light shunts. It does take much to get thrown in the ditch. Unless that the side of the track is absolutely clear ( aas on a lake), then it is risky. Better have studded tires too.
SpeedTT
02-21-2006, 09:23 AM
En passant, on pourrait peut-être donner le nom de la compagnie d'assurance qui couvre les evenements du club BMW aux responsables du club Audi... on pourrait peut-être en arriver a ce que les membres des différents clubs puissent participer à plus d'evenements sans être obligé d'être membre partout.:D
Yup. I realized on Sunday that if winter driver schools are safer overall becaue of lower speeds, they can be costly in small accidents. Hit a pile of frozen/icy snow, and there goes $2000 of plastic bumper cover or grills.And don't forget the possibility of an airbag going off. Instructors were warned about this at the Ottawa school.
From my point of view, I'm not 100% sure that Mecaglisse is the ideal environment for winter driving schools. It's just too narrow. I would really like to offer winter driving with our Club, but I'm still looking for the most suitable venue.
I'm thinking about something like the frozen lake in NH the Boston Chapter uses for their "ice racing" series. Maybe we can find something like that in Quebec? I know some guys do this sort of thing out on the West Island. We need to look into it more closely.
Emre
En passant, on pourrait peut-être donner le nom de la compagnie d'assurance qui couvre les evenements du club BMW aux responsables du club Audi... on pourrait peut-être en arriver a ce que les membres des différents clubs puissent participer à plus d'evenements sans être obligé d'être membre partout.:D
En fait c'est très simple. Tous les clubs et associations sportives automobiles en Amérique du Nord sont assurés par la même compagnie. La raison "d'assurance" est souvent utilisée (à tort) pour faire passer des règlements personnels. Et ce aussi bien dans certains chapitres BMW que d'autres marques. Ainsi, il y a quelques années, Trillium avait interdit les voitures non-assurées et non-plaquées et avait prétendu que c'était une demande des assurances. Après vérification, il a été conclu que nulle part les assurances exigeaient des voitures immatriculées et assurées.
bmwqc
02-21-2006, 10:59 AM
From my point of view, I'm not 100% sure that Mecaglisse is the ideal environment for winter driving schools. It's just too narrow. I would really like to offer winter driving with our Club, but I'm still looking for the most suitable venue. Emre
I agree. It would be much safer on an open lot (like a large parking lot or frozen lake) and the course marked off by cones or colored spray.
SpeedTT
02-21-2006, 11:03 AM
Excellente idée de se retouver sur une surface glacée libre de tout obstacle
SpeedTT
02-21-2006, 11:07 AM
En fait c'est très simple. Tous les clubs et associations sportives automobiles en Amérique du Nord sont assurés par la même compagnie. La raison "d'assurance" est souvent utilisée (à tort) pour faire passer des règlements personnels. Et ce aussi bien dans certains chapitres BMW que d'autres marques. Ainsi, il y a quelques années, Trillium avait interdit les voitures non-assurées et non-plaquées et avait prétendu que c'était une demande des assurances. Après vérification, il a été conclu que nulle part les assurances exigeaient des voitures immatriculées et assurées.
Quand les gens comprendront-ils que cela ne sert à rien de tirer la couverture de son côté et que ce n'est qu'en collaborant pleinement et franchement entre les individus et entre les clubs que tous en retireront des bénefices ???...
I agree. It would be much safer on an open lot (like a large parking lot or frozen lake) and the course marked off by cones or colored spray.I thought of parking lot, but I don't think it would work. There's no guarantee that there'd be enough snow. You might have a mild day or some rain, and then you're screwed. We wouldn't want a repeat of Ottawa!
Frozen lake seems like a safer bet. Pick a date in mid-February when you're sure to have thick ice. You'd need to get someone out there to test the thickness ahead of time. Then mark corners with cones or those little flexible flags.
Emre
Andre
02-21-2006, 10:51 PM
What about Blainville where the CADL used to have it's auto-x's?
If it thaws well then you just have a wet course.
~andre~
Blainville offers very bad financial conditions and a lousy service. CADL doesn't go there anymore for those same reasons.
Andre
02-21-2006, 11:23 PM
That's what I figured; just trying to think of some wide open spaces.
How about Mirabel?
Maybe we can share a spot with the aquariums? :D
~a~
bmwqc
02-21-2006, 11:25 PM
That's what I figured; just trying to think of some wide open spaces.
How about Mirabel?
Maybe we can share a spot with the aquariums? :D
~a~
The Hyppodrome is also available. Not cheap, but less money than Blainville and definitely more convenient to get to.
That's what I figured; just trying to think of some wide open spaces.
How about Mirabel?
Maybe we can share a spot with the aquariums? :D
~a~
Several promoters have approached the airport to use some of the landing corridors as racetracks. Airport racetracks can be fun. But it is off to the federal government to decide. They are not too hot.
Turbo_Bimmer
02-22-2006, 12:29 PM
I don't think it would be possible, since the airport is still operational for freight transport, UPS,FedEx and also there is Bombardier that use some lanes once in a while for their aircrafts (including army stuff).
They don't seem to be easy to deal with. Once, I was driving in the small roads around the airport, searching for a good test area, when the RCMP came to tell me that I had to leave, no possibility for explanation, just quit!
Several promoters have approached the airport to use some of the landing corridors as racetracks. Airport racetracks can be fun. But it is off to the federal government to decide. They are not too hot.
Andrei
02-22-2006, 12:56 PM
It was unfortunate that we had very hard snow banks. I think if the weather would have been more conventional it would have been a lot safer in terms of minor damage.
I would love to have some place to have an open area for a formal winter school.
snowmanmtl
02-22-2006, 01:40 PM
One "promoter" told me he had received a quote to lease( 50 years) a hanger and land for a track at Mirabel. Sebring is an example of an airport co-existing with a racetrack. Seems to work pretty well.
Andre
02-22-2006, 08:58 PM
There is an abandoned airstrip up towards Cheneville (North of Montetbello) that is now in private hands. Just went by it today. I could get the name of the owner if the club is interested.
~a~
There is an abandoned airstrip up towards Cheneville (North of Montetbello) that is now in private hands. Just went by it today. I could get the name of the owner if the club is interested.That sounds perfect!
Emre
Andre
02-23-2006, 12:28 PM
Okay Emre,
I'll see if I can get the contact info.
It might take me a couple of days.
Andre
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