Tires?

[Karin]

Hey everyone,

I'm (finally!) getting new tires. The ones that I keep hearing good stuff about are Toyo T1R. Any opinions?

The other ones I was looking at are Falken FK-452 and Kumho Ecsta Supra 712.
What do you guys think?

Thank you so much for your help, I'll see you at ICAR!

Karin ( S :D )

[LagunaM3]

For street, track, or both?

[bmwqc]

I thought the Kumho 712 has been discontinued?



Hey everyone,

I'm (finally!) getting new tires. The ones that I keep hearing good stuff about are Toyo T1R. Any opinions?

The other ones I was looking at are Falken FK-452 and Kumho Ecsta Supra 712.
What do you guys think?

Thank you so much for your help, I'll see you at ICAR!

Karin ( S :D )

[Gregster]

NO NO NO to the Kuhmo 712. Yeah they are cheap but they are also hard as a rock and SUCK.

T1Rs are good but I find they can chunk if driven hard. The tread blocks are really high and narrow.

Why not go with the Kumho Ecsta XS or RT-615s ?

[sebdavid]

I liked my Falken FK 452 last year. I'm trying Dunlop Star Specs this year, which I think will be better. At least they're supposed to be, and early indications are positive.

RT-615s seem to be crap on the wet, which matters for street driving but also on wet track days, which is why I've never had an inclination to try them.

EDIT

Ooops... got confused there. The FK452 were the tires I had 2 years ago. Good street tires, ok track tires when taking it easy, but when pushing, they were overheating and chunking.

The tires I had last year, and liked, were the Hankook Ventus RS2 Z212. They have a new version now which should be even better.

[Gregster]

I liked my Falken FK 452 last year. I'm trying Dunlop Star Specs this year, which I think will be better. At least they're supposed to be, and early indications are positive.

RT-615s seem to be crap on the wet, which matters for street driving but also on wet track days, which is why I've never had an inclination to try them.

My friend has Star Specs on his Lexus in 17s. I was really impressed with them. very very stiff sidewalls and big wide tread blocks. Rt-615s only become iffy in the rain if they are at 60% worn. I've ran them in the rain and my friend has them on his Miata. We have encountered no issues.


But like I8NASCAR asked.. Street, track or both...

[LagunaM3]

But like I8NASCAR asked.. Street, track or both...

Haha...that would make a good handle. :D

[Silverblades181]

RT-615 are fine in the rain, but you have to be carefull like any other tires.

Kuhmo XS or maybe the new Hankook Ventus RS3 would be on my list. I tired the Ventus RS2 and was pleasently surprised. Good dry grip and very good wet grip.

Toyo T1R are very expensive compared to the others. Falken Azenis RT-615 are tried and true. Never wrong with those.

I've heard good things about the Dunlop Star Spec, never tried them though.

[sebdavid]

Ventus RS3, definitely a good choice.

Now that I remember, my Falken FK452 actually weren't that good, they were chunking and overheating when pushed a little bit. I confused them with the Ventus RS2, which I had last year. Those were good, the RS3 should be even better with a more rigid sidewall.

All the guys with RT-615s that I've seen drive under the rain were more than careful; they were downright slow, seemingly having to tip-toe around the racetrack. That was at Sanair and Calabogie. They even sound weird under the rain, a kind of shearing sound... I'd have to try them to be sure, but by what I've seen and the design of the tread, I wouldn't be inclined to call them good wet tires. Appearances can be deceptive, I know... Still, RT-615s are good in the dry, but there are now other tires (Ventus RS3, Star Spec, etc...) which seem to be just as good in the dry and much better in the wet.

[Karin]

For street, track, or both?

Both, I cannot transport a set of wheels and tires to the track, I don't have a trunk :)

And I might not have a job either, so... :(

The thing is, I'm looking for a weird size. My stock tires are 195/55/16 - the Mini is one of only two cars wearing those, apparently. The common replacement is 205/50/16 but the choices are limited as well. This year I had to choose - 17" rims or new tires, obviously I chose tires so 17"s are not an option yet.

I'll keep all your suggestions in mind and talk to John at Talon. Hopefully I'll wind up with something decent...

Karin

[Silverblades181]

or check Tire Rack...much cheaper and more selections.

[LagunaM3]

You could get the Dunlops from Tirerack for $450USD shipped (to somewhere in the US). "Mayor" gets stuff shipped to a place just south of the border and then goes to pick the stuff up. You could probably have them shipped to a place in Plattsburgh, go down there and get them installed, and drive home on them.

[bmwqc]

You could get the Dunlops from Tirerack for $450USD shipped (to somewhere in the US). "Mayor" gets stuff shipped to a place just south of the border and then goes to pick the stuff up. You could probably have them shipped to a place in Plattsburgh, go down there and get them installed, and drive home on them.

Tires sold in the US have different codes stamped on the side. And our ever vigilant customs people have been known to check for new looking tires on cars at the border.

[Karin]

So... after reading your inputs and reviews online, I ordered the Star Specs. They got better all around reviews from Mini track drivers. Apparently they beat every other tire in the wet.

[Gregster]

good choice!

[sebdavid]

Did you buy them locally? I would much rather pay a bit extra (sometimes its not the case, when I bought my Star Specs it was LESS expensive from Talon) to enjoy the convenience and service offered by the guys at Talon.

I bought tires over the border and had them installed there... saved a few bucks, lost a whole day, got my wheels damaged... not doing it again.

Good luck with the job Karin, but I'm not too worried about you, you'll find something.

[Gregster]

I buy tires from Touchette. I can call them in the morning and they'll bring my tires around lunch time. Can yell at the guy installing them or balancing though :p

[bmwqc]

I have purchased several sets of tires from Talon in the past. Club sponsorship notwithstanding, I can only describe each purchasing experience as professional, pleasant and friendly, with a touch of class added in.



Did you buy them locally? I would much rather pay a bit extra (sometimes its not the case, when I bought my Star Specs it was LESS expensive from Talon) to enjoy the convenience and service offered by the guys at Talon.

I bought tires over the border and had them installed there... saved a few bucks, lost a whole day, got my wheels damaged... not doing it again.

Good luck with the job Karin, but I'm not too worried about you, you'll find something.

[Emre]

The common replacement is 205/50/16 but the choices are limited as well.The Hankook R-S2, the Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec (what a name!), and the Yokohama S.drive are all available in 205/50-R16. All three are priced about the same: between $95 and $105 USD.

Among those choices, I'd probably go with the R-S2 since it's a pretty solid all-around tire. Great grip in the dry, though turn-in is a bit soft. Doesn't get greasy 10-15 minutes into a session or howl through corners the way the Falken RT-615 does. Excellent wet grip. Great on the street, too.

[sebdavid]

Hankook RS2 has been replaced by RS3, apparently with a stiffer sidewall which would help the turn-in issue.

Great tires, I liked them for street/track use; no overheating, no chunking. Can't say they were silent when pushed during long corners, though.

[Emre]

Hankook RS2 has been replaced by RS3, apparently with a stiffer sidewall which would help the turn-in issue.I've got the new R-S3s on my E30. They're really quite spectacular. Sidewalls are definitely stiffer than the R-S2s (though still not as stiff as the RT-615s). Wet traction is very impressive. Dry, they grip almost as good as an R-Comp. Not too noisy in the corners, either.

Problem is, they've only just hit the market and tire sizes are severely limited at the moment. None of them will fit Karin's Mini.

[sebdavid]

I've got the new R-S3s on my E30. They're really quite spectacular. Sidewalls are definitely stiffer than the R-S2s (though still not as stiff as the RT-615s). Wet traction is very impressive. Dry, they grip almost as good as an R-Comp. Not too noisy in the corners, either.

Problem is, they've only just hit the market and tire sizes are severely limited at the moment. None of them will fit Karin's Mini.

Good to know, thanks for the report! Karin has already bought a set of Star Specs though.Will "street tires" begin to grip enough that they start generating the same car parts fatigue issues as R-Compounds? (increased wear on bearings and the like, cracked windshields, etc.)

[Emre]

Good to know, thanks for the report! Karin has already bought a set of Star Specs though.I've heard good things about the Star Specs.


Will "street tires" begin to grip enough that they start generating the same car parts fatigue issues as R-Compounds? (increased wear on bearings and the like, cracked windshields, etc.)I think the best of these new street tires are getting pretty close to the performance of "low-end" DOT-R tires (e.g., Toyo RA-1s). For example, I ran my new R-S3's at Mosport a few weeks back. I was able to enter corners 1, 2, and 4 with no brakes and just the slightest of lifts. Hardly needed any braking at all in 3 and 8. Definitely faster than the RT-615s.

It's been a while since I ran Mosport in my E30 on R-Compounds, but my corner entry speeds were pretty much in the same ballpark as with the RA-1s. Turn-in wasn't nearly as crisp, but they weren't too far off the pace in terms of overall grip levels. Honestly, I could barely believe how much grip they were generating. Very impressive.

[Gregster]

Im shopping for new tires and will most likely end up with RS3s or Star Specs.

[sebdavid]

I thought you would have bought whatever they use on the ZR-1

[Gregster]

LOL! I am too poor to afford PS2s.

[bmwqc]

LOL! I am too poor to afford PS2s.


PS2s have been around a while now. Are they still competitive with all latest new max performance entries from the competition?

[Gregster]

I have no idea about that.

[Andrei]

PS2s have been around a while now. Are they still competitive with all latest new max performance entries from the competition?

Yes.

[Gregster]

All this tire talk made me go out and buy tires.

Ended up going with Bridgestone Potenza RE-11s, 205 50 15. Tire rack has them for 120$US each I got them for 139$Cdn.

[bmwqc]

All this tire talk made me go out and buy tires.

Ended up going with Bridgestone Potenza RE-11s, 205 50 15. Tire rack has them for 120$US each I got them for 139$Cdn.


I read somewhere the RE11s are right up there with the Star Specs. Checked out an (unmounted) sample at Talon. The tire seems heavy with very stiff sidewalls.

[Gregster]

I was going to go with 615s but the sidewalls aren't that stiff. The RE11 has a very very stiff sidewall, which I like. Less rollover.

[Silverblades181]

I was going to go with 615s but the sidewalls aren't that stiff. The RE11 has a very very stiff sidewall, which I like. Less rollover.

The RT-615 have stiff sidewalls...for a tire that's been around for a while I think it's pretty good..and cheap. I'll be getting the new Kuhmo XS probably to replace mine.

[Gregster]

The RT-615 have stiff sidewalls...for a tire that's been around for a while I think it's pretty good..and cheap. I'll be getting the new Kuhmo XS probably to replace mine.

The sidewall is ok but nothing compared to the RE-11. Still a great bang for the buck tire though. Customer price on 615s these days is hovering around 125$cdn each in my size. XS is what I wanted but Canada Tire had nothing left in stock until the end of the month.

[bmwqc]

The RT615 is no longer the bargain it once was. Talon is selling it at the same price ($219) as the RE11 for 225/50/16). Kumho XS on the other hand is cheaper by $38.00 per tire.




The sidewall is ok but nothing compared to the RE-11. Still a great bang for the buck tire though. Customer price on 615s these days is hovering around 125$cdn each in my size. XS is what I wanted but Canada Tire had nothing left in stock until the end of the month.

[Gregster]

I remember there was a time when people didn't want to run Falken's or Kumhos so they were dirt cheap. When the 215s came out in 195 60 14 they were sold out very quick because they fit all compacts and were cheap. Now as the names become more mainstream they can raise the price accordingly.

[bmwqc]

I remember there was a time when people didn't want to run Falken's or Kumhos so they were dirt cheap. When the 215s came out in 195 60 14 they were sold out very quick because they fit all compacts and were cheap. Now as the names become more mainstream they can raise the price accordingly.


What has also gone up in price as a group are r-compounds.There was a time when dot tires cost less than max performace street tires, but that pricing trend seems to have reversed.

[Emre]

When the 215s came out in 195 60 14 they were sold out very quick because they fit all compacts and were cheap.I used to love the RT-215 because of the performance and incredible price. I remember paying something like $45 USD for them in 14" sizes from Discount Tires Direct. The 15-inchers were something like 55 or 60 bucks. For that kind of money, you could live with the compromises.

Now that they cost the same as (or more than) other high-performance street tires, they don't make as much sense.

[Gregster]

The first set of tires I bought for my OLD OLD OLD Neon(I've had so many of them) were RT-215s and I paid 300$ CDN installed tax included. Mind you this was back in 2002. When I bought 615s for my Accent I paid around 500$ this was 2 years ago, at the same time I bought the Toyo T1Rs for it.. which cost the same price.

Either Falken has been raising their prices slowly over the year or the dealers have been making more profit. From what I can tell it's a bit of both.

Ironically even if you factor in the exchange rate and duty tires still come out cheaper in the US.

[sebdavid]

Not all tires all the time. My Star Specs were less expensive from Talon than TireRack taking into account shipping, exchange rate, installing, etc...

[bmwqc]

Not all tires all the time. My Star Specs were less expensive from Talon than TireRack taking into account shipping, exchange rate, installing, etc...


The shipping charge is a real deal killer, especially when it comes to heavy and bulky items like tires. The tire prices at Tirerack are indeed very attractive until you start adding up the "a la carte" invoice itemization, and on top of that, you still have to pay a shop to install and balance the tires here in Montreal (unless you buy new wheels at the same time). So the last 5 sets of tires I purchased, I got them all from Talon. Reasonable prices and service beyond compare.

[sebdavid]

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=118

[bmwqc]

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=118

The Bridgestone is what I would have in mind for my next set of tires. Got to check out a sample RE11 at Talon during the tire tech session. The tire felt extremely stiff around the sidewalls.

[Gregster]

I get my tires on Friday :D

[bmwqc]

I get my tires on Friday :D

Why Friday? When the salesperson is pressured to meet his/her weekly quota?

[Tonybest]

Got mine already... but will have them installed on the 6th of July... at Talon.

Bridgestone RE050 Pole Positions

Next tires will be Dunlop star whatever Z whatever

[bmwqc]

Got mine already... but will have them installed on the 6th of July... at Talon.

Bridgestone RE050 Pole Positions

Next tires will be Dunlop star whatever Z whatever

The RE50 PP is a highly regarded tire. Wet traction is very impressive.

[PassatVR6]

The dunlops go really well

[Gregster]

Why Friday? When the salesperson is pressured to meet his/her weekly quota?


I buy direct from distributors. Sometimes you have to wait a few days for them since stock is low this year. Basically they are only producing what they know they can sell.

I also finally bought new rims for my car as well.

[Gregster]

Right, So I retract my previous statement of RT-615s being decent in the rain.

[blacksheep]

Right, So I retract my previous statement of RT-615s being decent in the rain.hahahahahah

yeah they suck badly

actually they grip pretty well in the wet once they warm up ... but getting them warmed up in the wet is a pretty interesting experience

[Gregster]

YOU CURSED ME!! Since we have the same wheels

[sebdavid]

Hahahaha!

[johnmdanskin]

The next step beyond runflat
http://www.wimp.com/tirereattaches/

[Turbo_Bimmer]

The next step beyond runflat
http://www.wimp.com/tirereattaches/


John, I tought THIS was the next step beyond runflat.
The good thing, it doesn't have air that expands with heat, and change the caracteristic of the ride...
http://www.stangbangers.com/MichelinTweels_Pic6.jpg

http://www.stangbangers.com/MichelinTweels_Pic1.jpg

http://www.stangbangers.com/MichelinTweels_Pic3.jpg



Or for those who think that those tires won't get enough attention at the track, well, you can try this:

http://www.carbodydesign.com/archive/2008/10/21-mitsubishi-mmr25/Mitsubishi-MMR25-6-lg.jpg

http://www.carbodydesign.com/archive/2008/10/21-mitsubishi-mmr25/Mitsubishi-MMR25-8-lg.jpg