3 Series Test Drive [Archive] - BMW Club of Quebec Forums

Gregster

03-16-2009, 12:51 PM

As happens every year, BMW has a test drive event. I'm assuming it's going to happen at the Hippodrome.

This year it's 3 series cars, 8 different models. They say "entire lineup" but I doubt the M3 will be part of that; we'll see. I certainly hope the 335d is part of the event though.

http://www.bmw.ca/ca/en/insights/crm/3series/banner.html

I signed up before. Spotted it on Autoblog.

I bet the club is going to have some free tickets to the event as usual

Karim E36

03-16-2009, 01:27 PM

323i
328i
328i xdrive
335i xdrive
335d

MB C-class
Audi A4
Lexus IS

bmwqc

03-16-2009, 01:42 PM

I bet the club is going to have some free tickets to the event as usual

Yes, I am just waiting for the official stuff.

REDROCKET

03-30-2009, 06:37 PM

Its still about 6 weeks away but wondering if anyone has heard if they have been selected. We have applied but don't know what day or time we will be given and just trying to make plans. I'm thinking some people may not be able to make their given time and hopefully we'll be able to shuffle around a bit. Thanks in advance

homer09

04-23-2009, 09:41 PM

anyone get invites yet?

bmwqc

04-23-2009, 11:08 PM

anyone get invites yet?

As far as I know, the event in Montreal is already fully booked.

homer09

04-24-2009, 02:30 PM

As far as I know, the event in Montreal is already fully booked.

yeah i noticed that. but did they send out the invitations? i registered before the event got booked.

what date was it, it's not even on the site anymore?

bmwqc

04-24-2009, 02:53 PM

yeah i noticed that. but did they send out the invitations? i registered before the event got booked.

what date was it, it's not even on the site anymore?

Booking the event with an official invitation pass is the only way to guarantee a spot. The club raffled out 10 of those passes to its members at the last meeting. Any other method of registration was subject to invitation at the company's discretion.

homer09

04-24-2009, 04:05 PM

Booking the event with an official invitation pass is the only way to guarantee a spot. The club raffled out 10 of those passes to its members at the last meeting. Any other method of registration was subject to invitation at the company's discretion.

yes im aware. im just wondering if they sent out the invitations already so i know if i got selected or not. if everyone got their invitations and i didtn, that means i didnt get picked and i can forget about it ;)

bmwqc

04-24-2009, 04:46 PM

yes im aware. im just wondering if they sent out the invitations already so i know if i got selected or not. if everyone got their invitations and i didtn, that means i didnt get picked and i can forget about it ;)

I hope most of you folks will get the invite. It's an event not to be missed.

Tonybest

04-24-2009, 10:01 PM

Well I got an invitation from BMW last week.. so maybe you are sh** out of luck

homer09

04-26-2009, 10:53 AM

Well I got an invitation from BMW last week.. so maybe you are sh** out of luck

dam. take me :rolleyes:

Phil

04-26-2009, 12:00 PM

Whoever goes, make sure you check out the 335d. And let us know what you think.

spazzboy

04-28-2009, 05:27 PM

Well, a 1.2L diesel can pull a 1-Series quite easily, I can't imagine what a 3.5L diesel will do in a 3.

I'm looking forward to it actually.

bmwqc

04-28-2009, 06:06 PM

I can't imagine what a 3.5L diesel will do in a 3.

Actually the 335D has a 3.0L engine

spazzboy

05-01-2009, 12:25 PM

Actually the 335D has a 3.0L engine

:(
Stupid BMW nomenclature doesn't make sense anymore...
Got my hopes up a bit too high. Still, it is nearly twice as large as what I drove in a 1-Series.

sebdavid

05-01-2009, 03:15 PM

In this case it makes sense, somewhat. It's a 3.0 with two turbos. Same as the 335i or 135i.

bmwqc

05-09-2009, 03:33 PM

I just came back from the 3 Series test drive. They had most of the 3 Series models on hand (no M3 though). The 328xi was pitched against
AWD models from Audi (A4 2.0T), Lexus (IS250) and M-B (C300).

Due to time constraints, I only managed to drive 4 cars (and sat in as passenger in 4 others with my driving partner at the wheel). I tried out a 335i (auto), a 328i (manual), a 328xi (auto), and the 335d (auto). I had driven a 335i in the past and was always impressed with the low end grunt, but that pales in comparison with the 335d. This turbo diesel pulls like a tank! And except on the initial launch, the engine was quite quiet and did not exhibit the clacking sounds associated with diesels. Overall, I was most impressed with the 335d, (no manual box notwithstanding) the power flexibility and superior fuel economy. Too bad there was no chance to test out how the diesel would perform at higher rpms (such as on a track).

Sitting in as passenger, the Audi A4 felt pretty good also. Good handling manners, flexible power band, and a very well put together interior (the latter, in my opinion even superior to the BMW). The M-B and Lexus were disappointments from an enthusiast's point of view. Both these cars felt clumsy (suspension too soft and lots of lean).

As happens every year, BMW has a test drive event. I'm assuming it's going to happen at the Hippodrome.

This year it's 3 series cars, 8 different models. They say "entire lineup" but I doubt the M3 will be part of that; we'll see. I certainly hope the 335d is part of the event though.

http://www.bmw.ca/ca/en/insights/crm/3series/banner.html

Gregster

05-09-2009, 10:50 PM

Here is my run down.

The C300 was soft, kinda slow and the steering was very vague and very light.. However the brakes were pretty good. It's funny because I drove a C230 Sport Pack and it was much better car overall.

I also drove the 328i and 335d. The 328i was a great overall car. Proper steering and proper handing. However the 335d is exactly what I expected, tons of low end grunt and pin you back in the seat power. It would be perfect for daily driver.

I did have the chance to drive the Lexus and Audi. Meh not a huge deal.

At the end of the day BMW still makes fantastic automobiles. You know deep somewhere within the company there are still people who care about how a BMW handles. I don't see Audi, Lexus or Merc having test drive events such as this. To me it shows just how much BMW stands by it's product.

bmwqc

05-09-2009, 11:46 PM

I liked the 328i also. It felt better than the xi version on the tight track layout.

Here is my run down.

The C300 was soft, kinda slow and the steering was very vague and very light.. However the brakes were pretty good. It's funny because I drove a C230 Sport Pack and it was much better car overall.

I also drove the 328i and 335d. The 328i was a great overall car. Proper steering and proper handing. However the 335d is exactly what I expected, tons of low end grunt and pin you back in the seat power. It would be perfect for daily driver.

I did have the chance to drive the Lexus and Audi. Meh not a huge deal.

At the end of the day BMW still makes fantastic automobiles. You know deep somewhere within the company there are still people who care about how a BMW handles. I don't see Audi, Lexus or Merc having test drive events such as this. To me it shows just how much BMW stands by it's product.

Gregster

05-10-2009, 12:41 PM

I still find AWD cars to be a tad on the really over weight side. Unless it's a Subaru

kenneth

05-10-2009, 01:56 PM

I'd rate the competitors like this, going from best to worst.

Audi A4 - Great interior quality materials and roomy, good handling although lots of body lean and screeching tires.

MB - Cheap plastic dash, lots of interior room, great engine growl - love it, lots of body roll and also screeching tires

Lexus 250 - Cramped cabin and driver footwell, awkward and vague driving feel.

Of course the 3 series wins hands down in handling department. I was disappointed with the Lexus.

bmwqc

05-10-2009, 02:30 PM

In my opinion, the Lexus was outclassed by all the others. Lacking in power, handling and with poor ergonomics (protrusions sticking out of both sides of an already wide gearbox tunnel), high window sills and backlight means this is no driver's car. Perhaps they should have put a more competitive car in its place, like the G37X. Yes, the Inifniti's engine power would outshine the others, but its price is still very much in the same range as the rest of the group.

I'd rate the competitors like this, going from best to worst.

Audi A4 - Great interior quality materials and roomy, good handling although lots of body lean and screeching tires.

MB - Cheap plastic dash, lots of interior room, great engine growl - love it, lots of body roll and also screeching tires

Lexus 250 - Cramped cabin and driver footwell, awkward and vague driving feel.

Of course the 3 series wins hands down in handling department. I was disappointed with the Lexus.

Gregster

05-10-2009, 03:28 PM

The IS300 was a great car... but like all cars the next generation is always softer.

bmwqc

05-10-2009, 05:29 PM

The IS300 was a great car... but like all cars the next generation is always softer.

The original IS300 was more of a purist's car. Not fancy, relatively light and a nice smooth inline 6.

kenneth

05-10-2009, 05:44 PM

Gregster

05-10-2009, 05:44 PM

The original IS300 was more of a purist's car. Not fancy, relatively light and a nice smooth inline 6.

My friend has one, he installed Koni Yellows with springs and sway bars.. The car handles really really well. His is perfect, Cloth seats, no options, LSD and 5sp manual

bmwqc

05-10-2009, 06:07 PM

Although the 335d has significantly more grunt down low than the 335i, it's over 100 kgs heavier and easily over 1 second slower to 100kms. Why do they make cars that heavy :( even the 335 is over 3500 lbs. :eek:

I would think that some of the weight difference would be attributed to the more robust diesel engine, larger starter, perhaps bigger battery. And what about the gearbox? The 335d comes with auto only.

Silverblades181

05-10-2009, 07:29 PM

Although the 335d has significantly more grunt down low than the 335i, it's over 100 kgs heavier and easily over 1 second slower to 100kms. Why do they make cars that heavy :( even the 335 is over 3500 lbs. :eek:

Enjoying your electric seats, IHKA, power sunroof, great sound deadening, the performance and precision that come from 15 modules working hand in hand, multiple airbags, great sound system, overall confort from a luxury car...stop me when you want. They don't make cars heavier...they just end up being so. They work very hard to keep the weight down using composites and aluminum (on the unsprung weight mostly)

I hear a lot of people complaining about car weight but I'm sure if I removed 500lbs you wouldn't even know.

That's why they build formula car and Ariel Atom etc... but don't do 650km trips in them though.

/end of rant

My first test drive in a 335d really surprised me, and I had already drove the X5 35d. Great little car for someone who drives long distances, or even short ones. The N52K of the 328i is also a great engine, full of torque and rev happy. I'm glad you guys enjoyed the test drives.

Btw, we just received our first batch of E89 Z4....can't wait to try one.

kenneth

05-10-2009, 07:53 PM

I would think that some of the weight difference would be attributed to the more robust diesel engine, larger starter, perhaps bigger battery. And what about the gearbox? The 335d comes with auto only.

Not to forget all the diesel specific hardware!

Rant/

And to Silverblades comment, I agree all the creature comforts add weights, but I'd be happy without the sunroof, electric seats and less sound deadening material, but I do not represent the majority. I believe I did not have much choice for the sunroof, it's packaged that way. I don't believe I could check off the sunroof. Neither did I ask for the wheels+tires to weigh over 60 lbs at each corner. If you get an after market catback exhaust, you can save some 30-40 lbs. So when they say they did their best to lower weight, I am not so sure. ;)

Right now my biggest worry with the 335i is the HPFP, which seems to fail at a high rate, south of the border, due to ethanol content in gas and an apparent design flaw which sees the rubber seals failing. As a 335 owner, I am worried as we'll be getting ethanol in our gas in 2010. So, I may not keep the 335 when my lease is up next year, unless BMW comes up with a solution.

About not knowing if car is lightened by 500 lbs, perhaps your average Joe won't notice.........I have owned a few cars, so I can tell the difference!

/Rant

sebdavid

05-10-2009, 10:00 PM

Hated the Audi's steering, waaaaaay too light. This alone made it the car I disliked the most there.
Didn't drive the Benz, but as usual it felt like a big barge to me and to the driver as well. And the dash is just a sea of horrible grey plastic. In a Benz.
The Lexus felt heavy, lots of lean and weight transfers.

BMW definitely comes out on top in the handling department, but in a straight line the Benz had a great raunchy sound and the Audi had amazing grunt with loads more torque (and it was the only 4 cylinder engine there).

335d does NOT feel like a diesel at all. I honestly would have never noticed it was a diesel if I hadn't known. I knew diesel engines were quite advanced, but after sampling a few in lower-end vehicles in Europe, I would have never expected that much refinement. Only a tiny amount of vibration in the steering wheel could tell you that you were in the 335d and not the i.

335i felt like a turbine-powered car, as usual. It's a great engine. Felt like there was some lag starting out hard in first gear, but I'm thinking that might be from the traction control more than the turbo lag itself. And the engine is so eager, too, completely unlike a turbo engine in that respect, when you're off the gas, you press the loud pedal just a little bit and bam! instant response!

I would still rather have the petrol engine over the diesel, but not by much.

Silverblades181

05-10-2009, 11:03 PM

Not to forget all the diesel specific hardware!

Rant/

Right now my biggest worry with the 335i is the HPFP, which seems to fail at a high rate, south of the border, due to ethanol content in gas and an apparent design flaw which sees the rubber seals failing. As a 335 owner, I am worried as we'll be getting ethanol in our gas in 2010. So, I may not keep the 335 when my lease is up next year, unless BMW comes up with a solution.

BMW did address that issue and offers a prolonged warranty on the HPFP

kenneth

05-11-2009, 08:34 AM

Thanks Phil, good to know. How long are the HPFP warrantied for?

Just waiting until the future M3 comes out :D Rumours has it the new M division boss is looking to get the future Ms on a diet and go back to E30's handling level. Less weight, less HP (likely the next generation turboed 6 cylinders - sequential turbos, somewhere in 2013).

Andrei

05-11-2009, 10:58 AM

Not to forget all the diesel specific hardware!

Rant/

And to Silverblades comment, I agree all the creature comforts add weights, but I'd be happy without the sunroof, electric seats and less sound deadening material, but I do not represent the majority. I believe I did not have much choice for the sunroof, it's packaged that way. I don't believe I could check off the sunroof. Neither did I ask for the wheels+tires to weigh over 60 lbs at each corner. If you get an after market catback exhaust, you can save some 30-40 lbs. So when they say they did their best to lower weight, I am not so sure. ;)

I don't know about the 335d but the M3 sedan can ordered with no sunroof and the coupe has that cool CF roof available. You don't save money, though. I ordered it with a sunroof simply because it cost me nothing and it helps with the resale value. E90/E92 don't make decent track cars. They are great for people in beginner/intermediate groups.

As for 30-40 lbs with catback exhaust I am sure BMW engineers are not idiots. Why would a company with multimillion dollar r&d budgets, serious clout with suppliers get a exhaust that is too heavy? Something will be compromised if you get a light weight exhaust. I would bet that the sound will be annoying. Sure it will be great if you are flogging the car but if you just want to get from point A to point B and have a conversation the sound would drone on too much.

I wouldn't imagine getting manual seats in a 335d. It's a diesel. Sure it's fast but you can get the gasoline motor and go faster simply because of the way the different engines work. The diesel is there for hassle free driving with lots of power on tap for short acceleration bursts.

At the event I liked how they mentioned the "Efficient Dynamics" mantra where the new cars are more powerful and efficient at the same time. The only exeption was the M3. It has worse fuel economy both on the highway and the city compared to the E46 and is sucking down gasoline like it's 1997 (I don't say 1967 because that would be leaded gas :) ).

Gregster

05-11-2009, 11:13 AM

yeah the M3 fuel consumption was great! I didn't like how BMW kept advertising slushboxes or the DCT trans.

bmwqc

05-11-2009, 03:10 PM

As for 30-40 lbs with catback exhaust I am sure BMW engineers are not idiots. Why would a company with multimillion dollar r&d budgets, serious clout with suppliers get a exhaust that is too heavy? Something will be compromised if you get a light weight exhaust. I would bet that the sound will be annoying. Sure it will be great if you are flogging the car but if you just want to get from point A to point B and have a conversation the sound would drone on too much.

Using a heavy exhaust system with multiple tips serves 2 other functions - looks sell, even for BMW, and it helps with achieving the desirable 50/50 weight distribution. It's a lot easier (and cheaper) to add 20 lbs of unnecessary exhaust ballast to the rear than to find a way to shave off 20 lbs from the front end.

Andrei

05-11-2009, 04:19 PM

Using a heavy exhaust system with multiple tips serves 2 other functions - looks sell, even for BMW, and it helps with achieving the desirable 50/50 weight distribution. It's a lot easier (and cheaper) to add 20 lbs of unnecessary exhaust ballast to the rear than to find a way to shave off 20 lbs from the front end.

It is true that the 4 tip exhaust is for looks only. I think it is silly just like that bulge on the hood of the M3 (that's a total cucumber in the pants move).

A single or double tip with a single muffler would work the best.

But almost all the aftermarket guys keep the 4 tips and just make the whole thing louder.

If someone does a single muffler with two tips on one side and the necessary body kit I would actually consider it. But I am not the main target of the aftermarket companies.

If someone decides to make a hood for the E90 M3 without the stupid bulge (a proper one with the intake vents) I am listening, too.

bmwqc

05-11-2009, 04:48 PM

But almost all the aftermarket guys keep the 4 tips and just make the whole thing louder. If someone does a single muffler with two tips on one side and the necessary body kit I would actually consider it. But I am not the main target of the aftermarket companies.

In fact, the system from Dinan (for the E46M3), uses a modified factory exhaust, retaining the 4 tips, but actually using only the 2 tips on the passenger side. The driver side's tips are blocked off completely. They kept the dummy tips there mainly because they did not want to leave the left rear valance cutout empty.

kenneth

05-13-2009, 07:57 AM

If someone decides to make a hood for the E90 M3 without the stupid bulge (a proper one with the intake vents) I am listening, too.

I don't know if it would fit your M3 (what's beneath the Hood bump?) or if you would like the design, vorstener has quite a few models for the e90/92.

Silverblades181

05-14-2009, 07:04 PM

I don't know if it would fit your M3 (what's beneath the Hood bump?) or if you would like the design, vorstener has quite a few models for the e90/92.

The huge air intake plenum.

Gregster

05-14-2009, 07:11 PM

One of those hood scoop things is functional on the hood.

bmwqc

05-14-2009, 10:15 PM

Silverblades181

05-15-2009, 11:01 PM

Does 4 litres of displacement really need to have such a big plenum? I am sure they could have made it more shallow without affecting the breathing too much (but I guess the manufacturer could not resist showing that big bulge to all who care to see) :D

They designed the hood to accomodate the engine, not the other way around. As for the use of the plenum...theres a team of engineer who designed it who know a hell of a lot more about cars then us.

Gregster

05-16-2009, 12:03 AM

That engine is a masterpiece... and is perfect stock.. Top of 3rd gear and you are doing 108mph.

kenneth

05-16-2009, 12:25 AM

That engine is a masterpiece... and is perfect stock.. Top of 3rd gear and you are doing 108mph.

Nothing spectacular, with my 7000 rev limit I do more than that! :D

kenneth

05-16-2009, 12:26 AM

does 4 litres of displacement really need to have such a big plenum? I am sure they could have made it more shallow without affecting the breathing too much (but i guess the manufacturer could not resist showing that big bulge to all who care to see) :d

+1

Silverblades181

05-16-2009, 03:21 PM

Nothing spectacular, with my 7000 rev limit I do more than that! :D

You've never driven an E92 M3 have you?

kenneth

05-17-2009, 12:41 AM

You've never driven an E92 M3 have you?

I have! And I was only responding to what was written btw about the 3rd gear stuff! :D

FWIW I'd pick an M3 over my 335 any day!!!

bmwqc

05-17-2009, 12:58 AM

So what's the verdict? Is it worth the extra 20K?

I have! And I was only responding to what was written btw about the 3rd gear stuff! :D

FWIW I'd pick an M3 over my 335 any day!!!

Silverblades181

05-17-2009, 01:48 AM

So what's the verdict? Is it worth the extra 20K?

Yes. There is something in M cars that is not in regular BMWs...

kenneth

05-17-2009, 05:55 PM

Lsd!!!;)

bmwqc

05-17-2009, 08:37 PM

Lsd!!!;)

With DSC and traction control (on the 335i), I would think that the electronics can ermulate an LSD to some extent.

Andrei

05-17-2009, 08:57 PM

With DSC and traction control (on the 335i), I would think that the electronics can ermulate an LSD to some extent.

Yeah, the electronics emulate a real LSD just as well as I emulate Arnold Schwarzenegger during his Mr. Olympia days.

kenneth

05-18-2009, 04:47 PM

So what's the verdict? Is it worth the extra 20K?

For most folks, who won't see track the 335 should be more than enough with lots of torque down low and much better gas mileage.

On track the 335 won't handle as well as the M3. Many suspension parts are more rigid on the M3 with stiffer bushings etc. than on the 335. If you ask me most of these parts should not differ in pricing significantly, but it's marketing. The other main differences are the LSD and the engine itself. The 335 comes with very good brakes.

So I guess it depends on who you ask, and on their preference of TT I6 or V8, the 20k might or might not be worth it.