Need some help to put my BMW on the track

[jackpot]

Hi, I want to put my E36 318is on the track this summer for some lapping and solosprint days, and I need your help to give me some tips. You don't need to tell me to sell my 318 and buy an 325 or an M3, I want to keep it low in the solosprint class !!

I need some help for brake pads. I will replace all 4 disc and pads. I need a good track pad that I can keep on the street without any problem and a good combination front/rear. XP8 at front and HP+ at rear is it a good combination, or the XP8 is a track only brake pad ? turnermotorsport.com tell they made HP+ for both front and rear (with hb136 code for front), but on hawk website only the rear is avalaible, is it the hb136 code is for hawk blue ? Someone tell me the hawk blue dissapear faster on street than on a track, is it the same for carbotech XP8 ?

My other question is for the rims. I want to race on toyo R888. The OEM tire/wheel combination is 205/60R15 on 15x7 +47mm wheel. I want to put 225/50R15 or 235/50R15. Can I mount it on my factory wheel without any problem of clearance ? What is the margin of offset I can go with this size of tire ? (the car is stock, no drop at all)

My factory wheel is like this :
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/9577/318iswheelof3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
For the brake cooling, is it enough ? Because I really want to keep it on 15 inches, but I don't want to spend a lot of money on race wheel for use it 4 or 5 time a year AND I can't found any 15x7 or wider wheel with the good offset and a reasonable weight...If someone have some wheel to sell, give me a PM.

If you have some other tricks to give me about the maintenance or the driving of a E36 for the track, I will be happy, it's my first BMW.

Thanks, and if you want to answer me in french, go for it !

[blacksheep]

your plan doesn't make sense.

Those wheels don't look like they provide good brake cooling, and they're probably super heavy. You can get inexpensive and light track wheels for maybe $500 ... a wise investment.


(the car is stock, no drop at all)Wheels / tires: Don't run R-compounds on a car with stock suspension. The car will be wallowing all over the place and won't be able to use the grip.

How much track experience do you have? It's a really bad idea to run R-comps if you haven't done have at least a dozen events on street tires.

Finally, the R888 is not a tire for daily driving. It's made for track use and they wear super fast.

Brakes: I love Carbotech but for a daily driver you'll want to skip the HP8 (as well as ANY serious track pad). They dust like crazy and wear fast and they squeal like a bus in stop and go traffic.

If you do a lot of mileage on the street you're better off running street-friendly pads for daily driving then swap brake pads before an event.

HP8 is borderline for a mid-weight car on R-compounds. I'd go with an XP-10 in front and XP-8 in the rear.

[johnmdanskin]

The Kosei R1s are very popular with the bmwcca racers. They are light and cheap (little over $100 each?).

For track on a street car I like michelin ps2, but the guys here have more inexpensive alternatives.

We say this to everyone and it is very true: Try tracking your car with no mods at all and -then- see what you want.

It is easier to gain skill on skinny street tires than it is on fat r compounds. After you feel like you have really good car control with skinny streets, you can move to skinny r compounds. Once that's OK, you can move to fat slicks. But you will have to change your suspension before you move to r compounds, and they will beat up your car. My mini's windshield broke from frame flex when I moved from toyo ra1s to bfg r1s. This isnt' all that happens.

The one and only mod I'd make to your car before tracking it is good track brake fluid. ATE blue or similar. This is as good as or better than normal fluid everywhere and it will keep you out of trouble on the track. The next upgrade would be brake pads as you are very sensibly considering. Eric (black sheep) knows all you need to know.

Don't buy rims and tires yet. It's just an expensive pain, and running r compounds will guarantee that you learn more slowly.

-john

[jackpot]

Those wheels don't look like they provide good brake cooling, and they're probably super heavy. You can get inexpensive and light track wheels for maybe $500 ... a wise investment.
That is in my price, but I can't find 15X7 5X120 wheel, and I don't know what is the offset I can take for fit 225 or 235 tire. The 20mm offset of the 5-serie is it ok or the tire will hit the fenders ?


How much track experience do you have? It's a really bad idea to run R-comps if you haven't done have at least a dozen events on street tires.
Finally, the R888 is not a tire for daily driving. It's made for track use and they wear super fast.
I have done the Quebec,Canadian and CADL championship of solosprint 2008, I have finished 1rst in GT4 class and 5th of 64 racers at overall for quebec and 2nd in my class in the CADL and Canadian solosprint championship at calabogie, and finaly 2 rookie of the year trophies. The awards doesn't mean experience and I'm still a beginner with a total of 12 days of lapping/solosprint/school in 2 years with an toyota echo RS 2004 on RA-1 with a good suspension.

For the stock car on R-comps, is it so bad ? May be I'll can't use all the grip, but with smooth driving it can't be worst than stock or sport tire and the R-comps will give me better braking. I know it's not the way to learn the car and my first runs will not be on R-comps, but after, for the competition....can I run the car stock on a very good tire ?

For the R888, I don't want to use them on street, I just don't want to change brake pads every track day, if it's possible. For the factory wheel, it is actually my question : ''is it enough for the brake cooling on a track ?''

[jackpot]

In fact, what i'm searching for the brake pads, is something they can resist wearing and fading in track use, not necessarily more braking power than stock. For example, I drive my echo hb with PBR ceramic and it's good for me. The braking power is not really better than stock, but I can made a full season of 7-8 track days with it compared to 2 for the stock and I can run it on the street. But I read in this forum to not use the PBR/Axxis pads, I read on carbotech website to not use the bobcat pads on track etc. What do you recommend to me, the OEM BMW paggid brake pad is it good for at least 4-5 events ? Do it go fade after 10 minutes on track ?

[Chow Mein]

I'd rather use OEM's over PBR ceramic. I used PBR Ceramic on my Golf for a very short while, they were really quiet, but complete garbage everywhere else!!!




In fact, what i'm searching for the brake pads, is something they can resist wearing and fading in track use, not necessarily more braking power than stock. For example, I drive my echo hb with PBR ceramic and it's good for me. The braking power is not really better than stock, but I can made a full season of 7-8 track days with it compared to 2 for the stock and I can run it on the street. But I read in this forum to not use the PBR/Axxis pads, I read on carbotech website to not use the bobcat pads on track etc. What do you recommend to me, the OEM BMW paggid brake pad is it good for at least 4-5 events ? Do it go fade after 10 minutes on track ?

[Emre]

I need some help for brake pads. I will replace all 4 disc and pads. I need a good track pad that I can keep on the street without any problem and a good combination front/rear. XP8 at front and HP+ at rear is it a good combination, or the XP8 is a track only brake pad ? turnermotorsport.com tell they made HP+ for both front and rear (with hb136 code for front), but on hawk website only the rear is avalaible, is it the hb136 code is for hawk blue ? Someone tell me the hawk blue dissapear faster on street than on a track, is it the same for carbotech XP8 ?It sounds like you've been doing this for a while, so I'm sure you know that pad choice is going to be a compromise. Most of us run pure street pads on the street (OEM Jurid/Pagid pads are preferred) and swap in pure race pads on the track (too many choices to list, but Carbotech XP-10's are popular). My personal feeling is that it isn't really cost effective to run the same pads on the street and track, so might as well buy separate sets and be done with it.

If you want to run the same set on the street and track, then it really depends on which is more important to you. When I was driving my Evo 8, I ran Carbotech XP-9's on the street for a while. They were noisy and dusty, but they worked fine. Then I ran Hawk HP+ street pads at Tremblant one weekend because I couldn't get my race pads delivered in time. I had to modify my driving quite a bit (and the pads literally burst into flames a couple of times), but they got me through the weekend.

The bottom line is that if you're going to compromise, you'll need to decide which side of the street vs. track equation is more important to you.


My other question is for the rims. I want to race on toyo R888. The OEM tire/wheel combination is 205/60R15 on 15x7 +47mm wheel. I want to put 225/50R15 or 235/50R15. Can I mount it on my factory wheel without any problem of clearance ? What is the margin of offset I can go with this size of tire ? (the car is stock, no drop at all)A 15x7" wheel is really too narrow for 225-width tires. There isn't much benefit in going wider than a 205 on those wheels. Especially if you're running stock ride height, spring rates, and anti-roll bars.


the brake cooling, is it enough ? Because I really want to keep it on 15 inches, but I don't want to spend a lot of money on race wheel for use it 4 or 5 time a year AND I can't found any 15x7 or wider wheel with the good offset and a reasonable weight...If someone have some wheel to sell, give me a PM.Most E36 guys run 17" wheels. There are few wheels that are both light and cheap while still being reasonably durable. John already mentioned the Kosei K1. Another option is the Team Dynamics ProRace 1.2. Both of these are also available in 15x7" sizes that will fit the E36. Or, you can always try to find some used E36 M3 wheels.

[FrankyGoes]

I have the Team Dynamics wheels and I like them.

I use HPS pads on the track and the street. OK for now because I'm just starting. I can see things getting pretty hot in future if I don't upgrade for track.

[Emre]

I use HPS pads on the track and the street. OK for now because I'm just starting. I can see things getting pretty hot in future if I don't upgrade for track.You can get away with running HP+ pads. They hold up to track use much better than the HPS, which tend to overheat and glaze very quickly IME. And they're not much different on the street.

[Gregster]

I don't suggest running race pads on the street. Thats only if you drive to work on a daily basis.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/theneonracer/MM3762.jpg

You can see the dust is starting to rust.

[bmwqc]

You can see the dust is starting to rust.


Is the rust really from the pad dust?

[Gregster]

either the pad dust or rotor dust. It was much worse after it rained.

[bmwqc]

either the pad dust or rotor dust. It was much worse after it rained.

From what kind of brake pad is it?

[Gregster]

Hawk Blacks or blues. I don't remember what I had on at that time.

[jackpot]

Thank you all for your answers.


It sounds like you've been doing this for a while
Nothing is buy/done yet, the car is in the garage and I just want to get the more informations possible before making a choice.