Gregster's must see cars at the car show..

[Gregster]

So Andrei and I decided to make the yearly trip to the car show... We spent an hour at the show since there isn't that much to see..

A warning, avoid the Chrysler display or lack of display. They have nothing but a desk and some rental cars... really I thought it was a rental car desk. Chrysler also has letters saying how they are sorry for epically failing and how they were once good....

Ok now the interesting stuff. Ford has a Euro Fiesta on display, nice little looking car. I'll give it 6 out of 10 Gregster Stars. 2010 Camaro, Nice car and looks well built. 7/10 Gregster Stars. Chevy Cobalt SS, Cheap interior but the turbo makes up for it. 7/10 stars. New 7er 9/10 stars, I didn't like the color. No ZR1 but there is a Z06 so obviously 10/10 stars, GT3 Cup Car 10/10.

We were confused why Ford had locked the Fusions when everything was open at BMW... BMW wins the best booth display hands down for having open cars.

We came to the conclusion that if you want something to tow a trailer a GM pickup truck is the way to go because GM knows how to make full electric seats unlike Ford.

The show is nothing compared to 10-15 years ago but in the end it was a good way to kill some time and laugh at Land Rover/Jaguar :D

Next month I am going to Toronto for the Canadian International Car Show.. Stay tuned for that.

[bmwqc]

What's the story behind Chrysler's "rental booth"? They have no cars to display or someone messed up the logistics?




So Andrei and I decided to make the yearly trip to the car show... We spent an hour at the show since there isn't that much to see..

A warning, avoid the Chrysler display or lack of display. They have nothing but a desk and some rental cars... really I thought it was a rental car desk. Chrysler also has letters saying how they are sorry for epically failing and how they were once good....

Ok now the interesting stuff. Ford has a Euro Fiesta on display, nice little looking car. I'll give it 6 out of 10 Gregster Stars. 2010 Camaro, Nice car and looks well built. 7/10 Gregster Stars. Chevy Cobalt SS, Cheap interior but the turbo makes up for it. 7/10 stars. New 7er 9/10 stars, I didn't like the color. No ZR1 but there is a Z06 so obviously 10/10 stars, GT3 Cup Car 10/10.

We were confused why Ford had locked the Fusions when everything was open at BMW... BMW wins the best booth display hands down for having open cars.

We came to the conclusion that if you want something to tow a trailer a GM pickup truck is the way to go because GM knows how to make full electric seats unlike Ford.

The show is nothing compared to 10-15 years ago but in the end it was a good way to kill some time and laugh at Land Rover/Jaguar :D

Next month I am going to Toronto for the Canadian International Car Show.. Stay tuned for that.

[Gregster]

What's the story behind Chrysler's "rental booth"? They have no cars to display or someone messed up the logistics?

They have NO cars that people want to buy and I swear they had a little information desk. It felt like being at a rental car office. Chrysler has no money for a lavish area.

Although today FIAT bought 35% of Chrysler... blessing for them.

[bmwqc]

I thought the car show was being put up by the local car dealers.


They have NO cars that people want to buy and I swear they had a little information desk. It felt like being at a rental car office. Chrysler has no money for a lavish area.

Although today FIAT bought 35% of Chrysler... blessing for them.

FIAT "purchased 35%" all right... there is NO money involved.

[Andrei]

Chrysler blamed the crisis and had a very subdued display. Just cars and a desk. No presentation at all.

It's always fun to poke fun at Shaguar. I pointed out how if you aim to look old you can get that big Jag sedan (XJS or whatever it's called). Then when we were near the fancy Jag sports coupe (something R, must be a car for pirates) I said that an M6 would be a much better alternative in that class. Immediately I overheard some Jag owner bragging how he "raced" against an M6. Bursting into a hearty laugh was the natural reaction from both of us.

Out of the lineup of the full size pick-up trucks I found GM to have the best interior with Toyota second. Ford hasn't discovered the tricky way of doing fully electric seat adjustment. The seat could move back to front but the back had to be adjusted manually. Surprisingly, GM engineers did figure out how to adjust the back with an electric motor. GM must have spies at Toyota. I didn't enter any Chrysler pick-up trucks. I got distracted by the Challenger/Charger.

[Gregster]

I thought the car show was being put up by the local car dealers.



FIAT "purchased 35%" all right... there is NO money involved.

Regardless of no money being involved it's a blessing for Chrysler.

If the dealers got together for the car show then GM isn't doing that bad, neither is Ford.

[Gregster]

They offered Jaguar owners either a free pocket watch or top hat to stand around talking about 'racing other cars"

The Challenger was very nice. I liked the pistol grip shifter, it felt very manly. 51k was pricey though... a Camaro SS of the same spec will be around 40k CDN.

[bmwqc]

They offered Jaguar owners either a free pocket watch or top hat to stand around talking about 'racing other cars"

The Challenger was very nice. I liked the pistol grip shifter, it felt very manly. 51k was pricey though... a Camaro SS of the same spec will be around 40k CDN.


The Challenger is basically a reskinned Charger. At over 4000 pounds, it is way overweight for what it wants to be.

[Gregster]

The Challenger is basically a reskinned Charger. At over 4000 pounds, it is way overweight for what it wants to be.

The weight is killer but it's still a great looking car.

[bmwqc]

The weight is killer but it's still a great looking car.


Not a bad looking car I agree, but nothing really new either from a styling point of view - basically a modernized (and FAT) version of a 40 year old design.

[Gregster]

That was the entire point.. to have a car that looked like the orignal. Which is does. Out of all the retro designs the Challenger looks the best. It's a good summer cruiser to go out and have fun in which is exactly what a muscle car is all about.

[johnmdanskin]

That was the entire point.. to have a car that looked like the orignal. Which is does. Out of all the retro designs the Challenger looks the best. It's a good summer cruiser to go out and have fun in which is exactly what a muscle car is all about.

right. old challengers didn't turn either. stop-light to stop-light is a valid measurement for a car. Not the measurement I'd use, but then there are people who measure goodness in a beer according to drinkability (whether you can drink a 12-pack without getting full or not), and they are fully entitled to their poor taste.

I've had to explain to my wife that I don't care how "good" music is. I want music to make me happy. Hence, Aerosmith over Charles Mingus. She still looks at me in disgust and says "How about Kiss then?".

There is no accounting for taste, and if people want to have bad taste in cars, then the challenger is a fun and distinctive car for them. It's not like it's an anonymous box no one would ever remember owning. "Remember back in grad school when we had that ummm, "car" whatever it was?"

Distinctive is cool. No one who owns a charger will ever forget owning it. That's what a car should do. This is what distinguishes the charger from budweiser.

That's also why I feel reluctant to criticize ricers. We may think their cars are silly, but they love their cars, they put everything they have into their cars, and they will never forget their cars. That's really what it's all about.

[sebdavid]

Distinctive is cool. No one who owns a charger will ever forget owning it. That's what a car should do. This is what distinguishes the charger from budweiser.

That's also why I feel reluctant to criticize ricers. We may think their cars are silly, but they love their cars, they put everything they have into their cars, and they will never forget their cars. That's really what it's all about.

It's a nice theory.

I don't adhere to it. You would remember me if I came to your wedding dressed in an ill-fitting crappy yellow tuxedo with holes, added parrot feathers to my pink top hat and carried around a big-ass boombox spewing out the latest gangsta rap, in old almost ruined sandals. You would remember me, but you'd still criticize me, especially since my disgusting outfit cost as much as a Hugo Boss suit.

Ricers invest amounts of money in their usually basically crappy cars that would have allowed them to buy a nice car, and end up with a crappy car that only looks good to them, and probably has worse handling than stock.

Or they ruin perfectly good cars with useless bits and pieces that, again, only look good to them.

Resale value plummets as invested amounts rise. And they often drive like idiots. Which they often are.

I don't like dumb muscle cars. But I can understand the attraction and don't see anything wrong with liking them.

Ricers are another story. I have a lot more trouble finding a justification for senseless amateurish modifications to a car that has been engineered for months and months by competent and highly-paid people. And usually, the modifications attempt to give an illusion of performance that is contrary to the original purpose of the car.

I like sleepers, I hate ricers.

[McNihil]

At the Car Show today, I noticed that the "carbon-fiber" hood on the Challenger SRT-8 is actually a sticker ! The corners were actually peeling off a bit ! I was very disappointed...not because it didn't have a carbon-fiber hood, but because they try to make people believe that it is....same with those fake hood intakes. I just hate those non-functional performance "add-ons".
But as far as the actual car show goes I was impressed at how many cars you could actually "sit in" compared to the other years.

[Silverblades181]

There was also a Jetta TDI Cup from the new SCCA racing series. Cool car and very cool serie.

The new Kia prototype was nice too (I forget the name) but I remember the specs. 2.0L Turbocharged 4 cyl producing 290hp and 287lbs/ft. Unless I misread, that's very impresive.

The GT3 Cup was on display at the Porsche Lauzon dealership for a couple of weeks so I got a sneak peak being accross the street.

I really like the exterior design of the new C-Class from MB. C63 AMG has killer looks and specs.

I was disapointed by the lack of ZR1s, I heard so much about them here. The Z06 was nice though.

The new F01 is awesome, can't wait to try it. 4 wheel steering must be nice. It also has night vision that detects pedestrians and can predict the direction their heading and advice as needed. They also have blind spot cameras. The twin turbo V8 is a beast too.

[Gregster]

Yeah I forgot about the TDI Cup Car... I didn't spend much time in the VW section because I wasn't wearing a fire suit.. you know those VW have a habit of catching on fire :D

The stickers were ultra lame on the Challenger... what was Chrysler thinking. Seeing the Camaro made up for the lack of a ZR1, however I had planned to sacrifice something at the sight of a ZR1 to make the Corvette gods happy.

Doesn't the new 7er have a watered down version of the FLIR system? I read something about it on Autoblog. Good for seeing cops hiding at night!

[bmwqc]

But as far as the actual car show goes I was impressed at how many cars you could actually "sit in" compared to the other years.


When the car dealers are all hungry for business, they'll walk that extra mile

[johnmdanskin]

It's a nice theory.

I don't adhere to it. You would remember me if I came to your wedding dressed in an ill-fitting crappy yellow tuxedo with holes, added parrot feathers to my pink top hat and carried around a big-ass boombox spewing out the latest gangsta rap, in old almost ruined sandals.


See, here is the difference. You think driving around on the street should be like showing up at a wedding. Tastefully somber hugo boss suits. I think driving around on the street should be like Mardi Gras. Personally, I'm not quite getting into the spirit of things because I prefer to show up at the wedding looking like stig, but I really enjoy watching mardi gras from a safe distance.

I also hate being limited by resale. Worrying about resale pushes people into boring. Boring boring boring. Boring. I don't like to worry about what other people think. I like to do what I want to do. Less boring, at least for me. Not worrying about resale is expensive, but boring is dead. I'll spend enough time dead later. I'm not going to be dead now, thank you.

This doesn't mean that I always like the Jurassic Park stereo next to my car or cruising outside my downtown window, but if it's not interfering with my sleeping, and it's Saturday night, and they don't actually park outside the window, I can enjoy watching the brightly colored birds strutting around the downtown and I can enjoy listening to their raucous mating calls for a while.

Life should be a party, not a formal event.

-j

[Gregster]

well said Mr.Danskin

[Andrei]

I've had to explain to my wife that I don't care how "good" music is. I want music to make me happy. Hence, Aerosmith over Charles Mingus. She still looks at me in disgust and says "How about Kiss then?".


KISS+Challenger=Victory!

Or the Camaro. Any muscle car must come equipped with a stereo that looks like 8-track of old and it must blare KISS.

I am still waiting for Greg to show up with his dad's Camaro so we can crank up KISS on it.

[Gregster]

KISS+Challenger=Victory!

Or the Camaro. Any muscle car must come equipped with a stereo that looks like 8-track of old and it must blare KISS.

I am still waiting for Greg to show up with his dad's Camaro so we can crank up KISS on it.


The Camaro is transfered to me now! :D My father has his boat now, he is occupied with that. I think they are changing the camshaft in it, after all it's powered by a 6.0L Vortec :D.

Maybe the exchange rate will get better so I can order some stuff for the Camaro.

[sebdavid]

See, here is the difference. You think driving around on the street should be like showing up at a wedding. Tastefully somber hugo boss suits. I think driving around on the street should be like Mardi Gras. Personally, I'm not quite getting into the spirit of things because I prefer to show up at the wedding looking like stig, but I really enjoy watching mardi gras from a safe distance.

I also hate being limited by resale. Worrying about resale pushes people into boring. Boring boring boring. Boring. I don't like to worry about what other people think. I like to do what I want to do. Less boring, at least for me. Not worrying about resale is expensive, but boring is dead. I'll spend enough time dead later. I'm not going to be dead now, thank you.

This doesn't mean that I always like the Jurassic Park stereo next to my car or cruising outside my downtown window, but if it's not interfering with my sleeping, and it's Saturday night, and they don't actually park outside the window, I can enjoy watching the brightly colored birds strutting around the downtown and I can enjoy listening to their raucous mating calls for a while.

Life should be a party, not a formal event.

-j

Mardi Gras works because no one takes themselves seriously. Try poking fun at the huge riveted airplane wing on a Honda Civic in its owner's presence... I've done it (indicated the way to the airport) and it's not a good idea.

I love your wit and I usually agree with you John, but I think we're not going to see eye to eye on this. I hate ricers and their cars. A boring wrong wheel drive Civic DX will stay boring even if you paint it purple with Type R stickers, drop it to the ground with shorter springs, install a P-flow and a soup can exhaust, an extremely powerful subwoofer (still doesn't sound good, but now everybody knows about it), a huge drag-and-lift-inducing rear wing, a DTM-style body kit that doesn't really fit properly, E36 M3 mirrors, type R seat covers and 19 inch spinner wheels with painted-on General tires.

Especially when for the same money one could have bought a real Type R Integra, or modified a 240sx for track use, or made a race car out of a Miata.

To me a car stops being boring when it becomes fun to drive, not when it brings a disproportionate amount of attention to itself.

Resale values are only important in that they allow you to buy another interesting car afterwards... Since money supply is limited, you have to maximize it in order to maximize how much fun you can have behind the wheel of a car.

But I know I'm in the minority on this, which probably makes me objectively wrong. To me, a car should be either a means to an end (usually getting from point A to point B) or something that's fun to drive. Not a status symbol, not a means of expression (that's what art and speech and actions are for), not a way to differentiate oneself (I can achieve that without a car), not a static work of art, not a museum piece, not an investment.

To me a car is either useful or fun, and the fun I get is from driving them. I couldn't care less about the looks or what people think of me when I drive it (which is why I drive and M3, and am therefore categorized by many as what Englishmen call a "cock", and it's also why I would not object to driving a Miata, with the obvious implication that brings). Some of the best cars are useful AND fun. They usually are flawed in some other way.

I'm not trying to convince anyone that I'm right and everybody else is wrong. That's just what I think, and for some reason I feel the need to express it on an Internet forum.:confused:

[bmwqc]

I just came back from the auto show. The crowd was relatively sparse for a Saturday. I could be mistaken, but the show in previous years seemed bigger and fancier. The atmosphere felt a bit subdued today.

The Chrysler display was pitiful. They might have been better off staying home. Their display occupied a large corner of the main level, but there was not a single banner along the black wall drapes, no overhead track lights, no stage, nothing except for one single lamp post sized sign and an information desk. Even Lada and Yugo displays (from years back) were fancier.





They have NO cars that people want to buy and I swear they had a little information desk. It felt like being at a rental car office. Chrysler has no money for a lavish area.

Although today FIAT bought 35% of Chrysler... blessing for them.

[johnmdanskin]

Mardi Gras works because no one takes themselves seriously. Try poking fun at the huge riveted airplane wing on a Honda Civic in its owner's presence... I've done it (indicated the way to the airport) and it's not a good idea.
[snip]
To me a car stops being boring when it becomes fun to drive, not when it brings a disproportionate amount of attention to itself.
[snip]
But I know I'm in the minority on this, which probably makes me objectively wrong. To me, a car should be either a means to an end (usually getting from point A to point B) or something that's fun to drive. Not a status symbol, not a means of expression (that's what art and speech and actions are for), not a way to differentiate oneself (I can achieve that without a car), not a static work of art, not a museum piece, not an investment.

To me a car is either useful or fun, and the fun I get is from driving them. I couldn't care less about the looks or what people think of me when I drive it [snip]


The thing I like about the Ricers is the passion they put into their cars. If someone puts a lot of passion and love into something, it's best not to make fun of it where they can hear you. Don't make fun of my girl even if you think she dresses funny. Don't make fun of my car either. You might think the aesthetics of either one is amusing, but I obviously don't and I obviously care a lot.

To you, a car stops becoming boring when it becomes fun to drive. For me, a car stops being boring when it acquires some kind of personality. Boring and what I like isn't the same. There is a form vs. function spectrum, where people care only about form (artists), or people care only about function (engineers). I'm an engineer who married an artist. When we look at cars, we see completely different things. It's like she lives in an alternate universe, but there is an overlap. I appreciate the beauty, she appreciates zip and handling. Allison isn't huge on ricers either, but she does appreciate the effort, except when the visual effort is overcome by the Jurassic Park speakers.

Personally, I would not want a ricer car. I would not want to be seen in a ricer car. I'd wonder where I went wrong if either of my children built a ricer car. I'm pretty sure that if you and I were each to put a total ordering on all cars based on personal desirability, the lists would be very similar. If you gave each of us a wonderful car like your M3, and $10,000 to fix it up, the resulting cars would be very close in form and function. Except that mine would have silver checkers on the hood and roof.

BUT, I appreciate the time and energy these guys spend on making their cars into sculpture. The sculpture isn't my favorite. The guys building the cars do tend to project a lot. They blast irritating (to me) music all over the nearby streets and sidewalks, but, for me, this is again mitigated by the love lavished on the cars. Even the guys with no money at all do everything they can to fit in (sometimes pathetic, resulting in very defensive guys, since they know deep down inside that their attempts to compete are pathetic).

When I was oh, so much younger, and living near a large hispanic population in San Jose, the hispanics were building low riders. The cars were low and slow. They were designed to cruise city streets at 20 miles an hour. On saturday night, they would get in the cars with their girls and cruise in their immaculately clean cars. Nowadays, those cars are driven by older guys. Because the cars are no longer being driven around by vaguely threatening 20 year old ethnic guys, the anglo population no longer feels defensive and threatened. The resale on a really well done classic lowrider is very high, because 25 years later they are recognized as classic.

One reason I am tolerant of ricers is probably that there aren't a lot of them in New England. Montreal is a foreign country for me. Ricers are mostly (not entirely) part of an exotic inexplicable aboriginal culture. They aren't threatening.

In terms of personal taste, no one is objectively wrong. We are just different. Others can be subjectively wrong, not objectively wrong. Once you define criteria for judgment, some cars are objectively inferior to other cars. Some people think of cars as functional objects with form reflecting function. Others think of cars as sculpture with function subordinate to form.

I'll always remember offering two different kinds of port to a dinner guest. I asked him if he'd rather have the good port or the interesting port. For him, this was a really weird thing to ask. Of course, he'd rather have the good port, duh, but I asked because I'd choose the interesting port 10 times out of 10. I've had good port. Interesting port is a new and unpredictable experience. Ricers are interesting port, for me. My car is good, for me.

Actually this has always been an interesting topic of discussion for me. When I met my wife-to-be, we spent hours discussing form vs function. We each thought the other person was an inexplicable alien. The intellectual stimulation of the difference was part of our chemistry. For me, since the ricers have a whole inexplicably different culture from mine, I find them interesting. Only the cars which are ignored by their owners are boring.

sorry about the rambling

cheers
john

[Emre]

The Camaro is transfered to me now! :DSo are we going to see the Camaro on the track anytime?

http://images.carcraft.com/thehistoryof/0411_08z+Trans_Am_Race+Group_Shot_Front_View.jpg http://www.maecomotorsport.com/images/transam01.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/198/518211066_d421838327.jpg?v=0 http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1148/678318239_8f880c2e3a.jpg?v=0

[Gregster]

Umm never.. Thats what I poured all the money into the Neon. The Camaro is my cruiser. People are always giving me thumbs up or asking me if it transforms when I am at red lights.

In the Neon most people are scratching their heads or trying to race me when i;m at a red light. I don't know what makes them want to do that, maybe the roll bar or the lack of an exhaust system.