'03 330xi rear pulsing shake under throttle after 40 min drive

[sharkmanbmw]

Hello & Happy new Year to all members :D

I have been getting some very unusual issues in the last 2 weeks - since it has been below freezing. I do NOT know if the cold is relevant or just coincidence.

'03 330 XI, 5spd, 75k miles, H&R lowering kit - PLEASE note: XI


I drive in a "spirited" way, no abuse and the car is FULLY maintained by a BMW Pro. ALL fluids were changed the week I bought it at 55k miles, it now has 75k after owning it since Nov. 2005.

PROBLEM:
At first the car is perfect in every way.
After 40 or so minutes of highway driving, I get a shake in the rear end of the car UNDER THROTTLE ONLY.

If I rev with clutch in, NO shake, let off the gas at speed, no shake, if I just maintain my spd, it is barely noticeable, BUT, when you hit the pedal 1/3 or more..... BIG shakey, shakey!
It feels like a sort of pulsing, throbbing sort of shake.

The headlights are literally jerking side to side, so it must be the rear end really twitching.
IF you let the car sit, at idle for 15 minutes, it seems to "reset" the problem, meaning it goes away and it takes another 20 + for it to start again.

The steering is normal, brakes are normal, and the first 30 minutes are normal.

ANY ideas what this could be??
Thanks

[white328]

it looks like the rear subframe, but i thinks that in '03 it has been corrected ?

[sebdavid]

How could it be the rear subframe if letting the car cool down a bit stops the problem, which reappears again after a while?

[sharkmanbmw]

Thanks for the input, but the subframe was checked and is not related.

I will add that the shake is not at all the same feeling as a bent wheel or bad tire... it really pulses side to side under throttle.

I have to assume it is a differential issue, but really have no clue how to proceed!

Should I just change the fluid again?

Any ideas who may have some insight on this that I could contact?

Is there any way TIRES could do this? I highly doubt it, but I am desperate :eek:

I have brand new BLIZZAK LM25 in the stock 17" size.

[Phil]

Drive shaft and/or guibo?

[sharkmanbmw]

Drive shaft and/or guibo?

Is that something that could take 40 minutes to "start" or would the symptom be there full time?

So far, the possible issues I have found could be any of the following:

support bearings
U-joints
drive shaftC/V joints binding
differential
hand brake
wheel bearing

Any ideas? In your experience, could any of these cause the specific problem I have, fine at the start, problem only shows itself after a long ride and progressively gets worse...

[sebdavid]

presumably a differential that's not working porperly could "heat up" and cause problems after some minutes of use, then quiet down after a cooldown.

something rubbing lightly on a brake could also be the culprit, I guess.

maybe the bearings, I don't know.

I'll stop talking out of my ass now: haven't you been able to contact a mechanic regarding this yet?

[bmwqc]

Check the output shafts. You might have a problem with a CV joint and the symtoms show up when the grease inside heats up.



Is that something that could take 40 minutes to "start" or would the symptom be there full time?

So far, the possible issues I have found could be any of the following:

support bearings
U-joints
drive shaftC/V joints binding
differential
hand brake
wheel bearing

Any ideas? In your experience, could any of these cause the specific problem I have, fine at the start, problem only shows itself after a long ride and progressively gets worse...

[sharkmanbmw]

Thanks guys.
My mechanic is away racing, so I am trying to solve this without him for now.
He has not seen or felt this yet.

I will add that there are NO smells once I park the car in my garage, no brake smell that I would expect if they were the issue, but you never know.

I also happen to drive only every few days and not more than 45 minutes - the few spots I drive to are 30-45 minutes away, so I have never gone beyond the 45 minutes... but it feels like something is going to explode by the time I exit the highway... leaving a stop sign, get to 2nd gear and floor it... it goes as fast as always, but crazy shake until you let off... so it is not just highway.

[bmwqc]

Please let us know when you find the real problem. It would be interesting to know who guessed right. :)




Thanks guys.
My mechanic is away racing, so I am trying to solve this without him for now.
He has not seen or felt this yet.

I will add that there are NO smells once I park the car in my garage, no brake smell that I would expect if they were the issue, but you never know.

I also happen to drive only every few days and not more than 45 minutes - the few spots I drive to are 30-45 minutes away, so I have never gone beyond the 45 minutes... but it feels like something is going to explode by the time I exit the highway... leaving a stop sign, get to 2nd gear and floor it... it goes as fast as always, but crazy shake until you let off... so it is not just highway.

[rocksonrocks]

You said you just got new tires. I once went to a very bad tire shop (I won't name them). They did a very fast job with their air gun. When i left, the car had a terrible wobble (at low speed though). They had cross-threaded a wheel bolt. It was tight but the wheel wasn't. Double check your wheels are on properly.

[Emre]

As I recall, BMW's AWD system relies on electronics to shuffle the power around (not a 100% mechanical system like the old 325iX). Since "re-booting" the car seems to temporarily solve the problem, I suspect the problem originates in the electronics.

Also, have you tried driving with the DSG system switched off? Since the stability control works by actuating the rear brakes, I wonder if that might be a culprit. When the car starts rocking, can you hear the ABS pump working?

Another thing to consider if whether your winter tires are exactly the same outer diameter as your summer tires. Newer AWD BMW's use the ABS system as a rudimentary tire pressure monitor. If one or more wheels are spinning faster than the car "thinks" they should be spinning, that'll trigger the low pressure warning.

I would start by switching stability control off. See if that makes a difference. If it does, that tells you the electronics are at fault.

[sharkmanbmw]

OK - we visually checked the boots, all intact, NO grease in wheel or area - seems nothing is leaking from the CV boots.

I found a thread that seems to explain the problem perfectly... it is a somewhat common Xi problem :(

"Vibration in the front end under load has been well documented resulting from dry CV joints" MOST people fixed this with NEW front axles!!!!
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?p=9198172#post9198172

To me, it feels like the REAR end, not the front, but all other cases have been in the front.

Either way, I had the front boots changed recently (not at the same time, but as soon as I found grease in the wheel) and I find it hard to believe it is the front that is dry. The rears have never been done.

BIG question:
Is there anyone that can remove my CV boots and check the grease under them??????
My mechanic (bimmershop) is away... WHO can help me best?

I am afraid every mile I drive is making the axle(s) die faster!
I cannot wait 3 weeks to get this settled.

THANKS GUYS

[Emre]

BIG question:
Is there anyone that can remove my CV boots and check the grease under them??????
My mechanic (bimmershop) is away... WHO can help me best?You can try Norbert at BM Exclusiv or George at TC Automotive. Most Club members have had positive experiences with them.

[FrankyGoes]

I liked Emre's line before you found that thread...

My take;
If the car vibrates as bad as you say (Shake the headlights) it's easy to be mistaken about the origin.
If it's shaking from left to right it sounds like a drive shaft issue to me.
If I read correctly it's ok under take off power but gets bad at constant speeds. That points to a universal joint to me.
Why does it reset - See Emre's theory.

Strange. Keep us posted...and good luck.

[sharkmanbmw]

Hi guys - Many of you have the right ideas - CV / drive shaft problem :)

I REALLY appreciate everyone's time and knowledge :)

BUT, I have a strange update...

First some clarification...
The "reset" of the problem is not electrical or due to shutting the car off.
What I meant was it seems to stop doing the shake IF you sit and let it cool off - even idling 10 minutes is enough. However, the problem will start again sooner than the 40 minutes. It really seems to be a heating up problem.

I understand Emre's point though, it COULD be electrical, (See Update below) :confused:
I did try switching off DSC and it made no change (switched it off & on during a shake session!). Also, 100% the ABS is not kicking in. Rotated the tires and no change - got the same shake.

So, the UPDATE:

As I have said already, it starts off fine, then starts to build up a shake at approx, 40 minutes.
I THOUGHT that once it started, it just got worse and worse unless you stopped.
***********
BUT, I found that once it starts, if I play with the pedal on & off gently, after about 5 times, it is PERFECT as long as I don't let off the throttle, even just a TINY bit.
So, it shakes, I give it gas and it shakes hard, off/on a few times and all of a sudden it is smooth as normal under full throttle all the way to 160+++.
As soon as I ease off the pedal a bit & press again - SHAKE again!

I had concluded I have a dry CV joint in one or more corners and was prepared to redo them, BUT, the fact that it stops totally if I play with gas on & off TOTALLY baffled me!

Does that make any sense to you guys?

Chris

[kenneth]

Something completely out of the blue: check spark plugs/spark plug wires and condenser (does it have one?) Could be condenser needs to be changed or coil pack.

Let me know if I win the jackpot....:D

[Silverblades181]

As I recall, BMW's AWD system relies on electronics to shuffle the power around (not a 100% mechanical system like the old 325iX). .

The E46 does not have X-Drive, it uses a 100% mechanical AWD system using a conventional transfer case.

The only BMWs with X-Drive are the new E90s, E60s, X5 and X3. X6 uses X-Drive but it has an electronically controled rear diff aswell which differs from the others.

The vibration seems engine related. Very strange problem.

[mayor]

Something completely out of the blue: check spark plugs/spark plug wires and condenser (does it have one?) Could be condenser needs to be changed or coil pack.

Let me know if I win the jackpot....:D

Sounds like it could be coilpack(s). Is there a loss of power?

[LagunaM3]

Sounds like it could be coilpack(s). Is there a loss of power?

If it were the coils, the car should go into limp mode. And he should not be able to go 160 kph. At least that was the case when my coils went bad...

[kenneth]

Something completely out of the blue: check spark plugs/spark plug wires and condenser (does it have one?) Could be condenser needs to be changed or coil pack.

Let me know if I win the jackpot....:D

Rough running under load, but after engine warms up some, sounds like an ignition part going bad, in the absence of running gear trouble. So I would suggest troubleshooting in that area, unless OP mentions it has nothing to do with engine.

Good Luck

[sharkmanbmw]

All coils were replaced under warranty when the first one went bad... It also does NOT lose power - ever.

Just that shake that arises after a long ride... which I have now found can be "fixed" by playing gently with the gas pedal, but immediately starts again as soon as there is any easing off the power.

Engine revs up properly, and when it is ok, it is perfect. Once it starts, it will do it in any gear or speed, and the intensity is directly related to how much throttle you give.

Is it possible a bad CV could be shaking one second, I adjust throttle a few times - and all of a sudden it is Normal again!! Then starts all over again :confused:

[kenneth]

Does the shaking only happen when car moving, or also when at a stand still? Coil packs changed, how about spark plugs/condensor?

Thought you ruled out the running gear, now you are back to CV joint.

Not easy to troubleshoot on the net!

[sharkmanbmw]

SOLVED :)

It turns out that the xi issue is resolved by:

Re-greasing front half-shaft inner CV joints

IF you are lucky, re-greasing these will solve the prob 100%

If the joints have WORN too much, they may continue to vibrate and the axles must be replaced, which is very $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

The only way to know is to re-grease properly and test it on a long drive.

BMW must have been using some really shittty grease :mad:

BIG thanks to Seb @ Bimmershop

[mightydread]

SOLVED :)

It turns out that the xi issue is resolved by:

Re-greasing front half-shaft inner CV joints

IF you are lucky, re-greasing these will solve the prob 100%

If the joints have WORN too much, they may continue to vibrate and the axles must be replaced, which is very $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

The only way to know is to re-grease properly and test it on a long drive.

BMW must have been using some really shittty grease :mad:

BIG thanks to Seb @ Bimmershop

Seb is the man :D:D:D

[PassatVR6]

SOLVED :)

It turns out that the xi issue is resolved by:

Re-greasing front half-shaft inner CV joints

IF you are lucky, re-greasing these will solve the prob 100%

If the joints have WORN too much, they may continue to vibrate and the axles must be replaced, which is very $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

The only way to know is to re-grease properly and test it on a long drive.

BMW must have been using some really shittty grease :mad:

BIG thanks to Seb @ Bimmershop

Glad to hear it is fixed, but the axle is under $200. Dealer price is outa this world.