Insurance companies close track day and advanced training loopholes

[Gregster]

Could be headed over here soon, Since most canadian insurance companies are owned by multinational insurance companies

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/20/insurance-companies-close-track-day-and-advanced-training-loopho/

[Guy_Tremblay]

I just read the same article. That means having a dedicated low-cost track car will be the only way.

[bmwqc]

At the last event at LCMT, extra-cost track day insurance was available, but 2 catches:

- it was expensive
- it was not available to Canadians





I just read the same article. That means having a dedicated low-cost track car will be the only way.

[Turbo_Bimmer]

Nice, very nice!

Now that the government and police made a point to educate young drivers, and convince them to go on a track to push their car to the limit, the insurance companies jump into it and destroy what has been done.

So, young males,(maybe females also) with the desire to explore the limit of their car will return 'street racing' on the streets since they are covered by their assurance cie if they wrap their car around a Hydro-Q. post
I predict that in less than 10 years, it will be illegal to have aftermarket mag wheels, and sound system in a car, since it increases the chances of theft, and reclamation.
"Pay, don't claim, and don't increase the risk you represent for us:"
- your insurer :mad:

[Turbo_Bimmer]

At the last event at LCMT, extra-cost track day insurance was available, but 2 catches:

- it was expensive
- it was not available to Canadians

This only proves how close minded are the canadian assurance cie. In the states, you can insure anything with wheels. 40hp to 5000hp. You pay the premium according to the risk etc. But here, nada.

Where my wife works, they have a big assurance cie as customer, and they give employees very good deals.
A long time ago, when I had my 318 convertable, I asked for a price for all of my cars. They refuses to insure me/my wife because the E30 had an appraisal from an apraiser approved by la SAAQ, that put the value of the car higher than the market.
Suddenly we were the undesirables, even if I had 4 cars to insure!
Go figure:eek:

[Andrei]

Nice, very nice!

Now that the government and police made a point to educate young drivers, and convince them to go on a track to push their car to the limit, the insurance companies jump into it and destroy what has been done.

So, young males,(maybe females also) with the desire to explore the limit of their car will return 'street racing' on the streets since they are covered by their assurance cie if they wrap their car around a Hydro-Q. post
I predict that in less than 10 years, it will be illegal to have aftermarket mag wheels, and sound system in a car, since it increases the chances of theft, and reclamation.
"Pay, don't claim, and don't increase the risk you represent for us:"
- your insurer :mad:

The insurance companies are not destroying anyones dream of "pushing the car to the limit". They never intended their policies to cover driving at the limits of the car's capabilities. The standard insurance policy covers driving within the traffic laws. Note how they exclude accidents when driving drunk. Theoretically I could drive drunk on my own land without problems from the police but I don't think I would get coverage if the insurance company learns I was drunk when I knocked over the barn with my pickup truck.

The risks posed by driving on the track are greater than normal road driving. The article in NYT does mention how one company who offered low cost track insurance did pull out of the market because the claims were too high. The problem with track insurance is that most claims are not your normal 3,000-5,000$ claims but total or near total losses.

I don't think it will become illegal to sell aftermarket wheels. What will happen is what exists now in Germany. All aftermarket products need to be approved by a government body. This eliminates a lot of the garbage from the market (so 80% of aftermarket products in US/Canada, then). This is actually good. In Germany if you buy an approved aftermarket part your insurance does cover it. Here it is a gray area where you are at their mercy and have no reliable way to show that your modifications are good.

I think it is painful that the major insurance companies are pulling out of covering accidents on the track but at the same time it will bring clarity to the market. Right now a specialty "track" insurer can't get enough clients because most people assume they are still covered by their normal carrier. Now there will be a bigger market for clear no-bullshit track insurance. That may mean Canada would become a viable market, too.

[rocksonrocks]

I agree with the point about drunk driving where I don't think you would be covered, but I also agree with turbo bimmer that you probably would be covered if you wrapped your car around a pole doing twice the speed limit on the street. As a Group C guy with one track day I found it very safe (probably safer than the street). It must be the racing guys putting in the big claims. Maybe they can give insurance rates by Group category. :D

[FrankyGoes]

However, as a newcomer to this activity...

I always considered myself self-insured. Which might be tricky to workout if contact is with another participant. I wish you guys didn’t come to the track with $70 000 cars. You make me nervous :-)

This is sure to get interesting. My crystal ball shows track day coverage for Canadians in the future. I will be buying then. Any sellers ?

[Andrei]

I always considered myself self-insured. Which might be tricky to workout if contact is with another participant. I wish you guys didn’t come to the track with $70 000 cars. You make me nervous :-)


I wouldn't worry too much about that.
All the participants sign a waiver stating they will not claim against anyone if something goes wrong.

If you plow into someone because they decided to stop in the middle of the track you are not liable for their car (they are not liable either).

Those waivers have been tested in Canadian courts and were upheld.

Now, the track itself can and will claim against you for any repairs necessary. So don't knock down anything that looks expensive.
BTW guardrails a pretty expensive.

[Emre]

I'm not sure that normal insurance designed to cover routine road use should apply to track events anyway. Just like you shouldn't expect your manufacturer's warranty to cover a clutch burned up on the dragstrip or a valvetrain toasted by a "money shift" at the end of the backstraight at Mosport.


Right now a specialty "track" insurer can't get enough clients because most people assume they are still covered by their normal carrier. Now there will be a bigger market for clear no-bullshit track insurance. That may mean Canada would become a viable market, too.Exactly. The same thing happened in the UK. Now you have specialist track-day insurers who have stepped into this hungry market. Clears up the bullsh1t/uncertainty.

[Emre]

I always considered myself self-insured. Which might be tricky to workout if contact is with another participant. I wish you guys didn’t come to the track with $70 000 cars. You make me nervous :-)Everyone attending a track event knows that this is a "participate at your own risk" type of activity. Everyone should accept the fact that if their car is damaged on the track or they cause damage to the facility, then they are solely responsible. That's why we have waivers: if you're uncomfortable taking on the risk and responsibility, then don't participate. As for insurance, your normal insurance company may pay ... or they may not pay. That's your problem to deal with. Drive accordingly.

Having said that, there's a certain "gentleman's agreement" in cases where you cause harm to another participant through recklessness or sheer stupidity and there absolutely no fault at all on the part of the other person. Accidents happen. But if you do something really dumb and that hurts someone's car, the "proper" thing to do is offer to take care of it.

As some of you know, I caused some harm to a borrowed car a few years back. Even though there were some mitigating circumstances (long story), I arranged to have the car fixed in a very short time and paid for everything myself. Even threw in a fresh set of tires. I didn't have to do this. But it was the right thing to do under the circumstances.

Again, accidents happen. If your car is damaged by someone else, you should not expect them to pay. But if they did something remarkably dumb and you paid the price, then there's a certain expectation that they'll step up and take responsibility. That's one reason we limit events to paying Club members. We like to know who we're sharing the track with!

EDITED TO ADD: For the record, the likelihood of car-to-car contact is close to zero. I can't think of a single instance in which this has ever happened at any BMW, Porsche, etc. club event I know of. When we're talking about someone damaging your car, that generally means: "you handed someone the keys to your car and they did something dumb." This is why lots of instructors refuse to drive student's cars and why lots of folks turn down offers to share other people's cars.