BAB-8 is ON!

[Emre]

Hi, everyone.

I couldn't contain my enthusiasm. I had long talks with Tremblant management and the Boston Chapter guys today. BAB-8 is ON!

The best part is we get to keep the same weekend. This year's event will be Friday-Sunday, August 11-12-13. This is the same weekend as last year. We made a deal with Tremblant to keep this weekend reserved for BAB events...and they delivered on their promise. This will be one of those annual events that students and racers can count on year after year.

So, mark your calendars. More event announcements will come soon. There's a lot in the works right now.

Emre

[silver ride]

woohoo!
I'm in!!! :D
My calendar is marked ;)

[mightydread]

Cool, i'm in also.
mikie

[SpeedTT]

Yahoo!!! Thanks Emre

[Lee]

Hey Emre, haven't we also reserved for the May 13-14 weekend too? It would be great to kick off the season at Le Circuit Mont Tremblant. We would have the whole winter season to start organizing the event, and perhaps even work something with a BMW dealer. What about asking Canbec or BMW Laval if they are interested in signing up their clients who just bought an M car during the past year? Or any BMW of course. W could also ask the AUDI club to join for the May event. This way, if we still get some snow, the AUDI guys may have an advantage on us...

[Emre]

Hey Emre, haven't we also reserved for the May 13-14 weekend too? It would be great to kick off the season at Le Circuit Mont Tremblant.Yes, there are a couple of other weekends in the works, but I don't want to announce them yet as they have NOT been confirmed. The BAB-8 weekend HAS been confirmed.

As soon as we get confirmation from Vince, I will annouce the other weekends. As, yes, we are talking with Audi about co-hosting with us in May. Again, we'll let everyone know when the time is right.

Emre

[blacksheep]

DAMN, not with Audi?

Audi's are for people who can't drive!!! ;)

j/k :D

[Kolia]

Mmmmh....

Time to get to work on that Z wish-list of mine ! aha!

[Lee]

Guys, you have all winter to prepare.

[Kolia]

Guys, you have all winter to prepare.
Early birds get the worms ! ;)

[SpeedTT]

DAMN, not with Audi?

Audi's are for people who can't drive!!! ;)

j/k :D
I know that. I Bought a TT for this reason ...

[blacksheep]

I know that. I Bought a TT for this reason ...Hahah

and that's why I bought an A4 ;)

[snowmanmtl]

Vince has already confirmed an August weekend?? I guess the Big Khuna will be out of town in August next year, rats! That means no Le club weekends in August again. I'll have to pay you guys a visit on the Friday. Weekends at Bab events are just too crowded and you guys always roll a car or two.:D

[yield]

Great news !!!
I will be in for shure this year...
With some minors modifications this time... :D

[Lee]

Vince has already confirmed an August weekend?? I guess the Big Khuna will be out of town in August next year, rats! That means no Le club weekends in August again. I'll have to pay you guys a visit on the Friday. Weekends at Bab events are just too crowded and you guys always roll a car or two.:D

As it was the case for BAB7, there is the possibility to drive Friday only. This day is reserved to instructors and confirmed signed-off drivers with previous experience at Le Circuit. Instructors who get to work on Saturday and Sunday can drive for free on Friday. Instructors who DO NOT instruct on Saturday and Sunday get to pay the same rate as the signed-off drivers who do Friday-only: $250. Last year, the signed-off students who drove Friday on top of Saturday and Sunday paid only $150 extra.

Porsche drivers are welcome to smash their car on Friday, and hand us beverages after each session on Saturday and Sunday. He, he.

[Emre]

Vince has already confirmed an August weekend??Yes, it's confirmed. Otherwise I wouldn't have announced it.


I'll have to pay you guys a visit on the Friday. Weekends at Bab events are just too crowded and you guys always roll a car or two.:DIf by "us guys" you mean BMW Club of Quebec, I would have to respectfully disagree. Our safety record speaks for itself.

Emre

EDIT: I think you're confusing BAB-7 with the Trillium event the month before. There was a rollover at that event.

[Kolia]

Porsche drivers are welcome to smash their car on Friday, and hand us beverages after each session on Saturday and Sunday. He, he.

Ouch ! :eek: :rolleyes: :D

[Lee]

Sorry about this one. No offense meant. I do not care what car peoples drive. I only care about the behaviour on-track and off-track. It is going to be a great summer.

[Kolia]

Aha,

I liked it!
It's my new signature quote on the Z forums now ! hehehe

[snowmanmtl]

Don't worry Lee, I took it in the spirit it was intended. I got a laugh out of it. I believe it's called talking smack and it makes for good competition.
Emre , the rollover with the Trillium Chapter was a Mini in 7. There was an M3 that had a frontal impact on the inside of 7, ( took two lengths of guard rail - tires there now) totalling the car. Hit so hard the guy doesn't remember anything about. He was O.K. aside from a sore neck and some bruising. Not sure if that was Trillium too, but the guy was prepping for the club race. At Bab 7 there was the car that ended up on its' roof in Namerow, just at Pit in. There were a few pictures posted with a tow truck and Vince and a few other people standing around. Can't find them now.

[SpeedTT]

I have to prepare my car for next year like this one

http://www.audittcca.com/photo_gallery/submitted/irobot_2.jpg/view?query_start=11

[Emre]

There was an M3 that had a frontal impact on the inside of 7, ( took two lengths of guard rail - tires there now) totalling the car. Hit so hard the guy doesn't remember anything about. He was O.K. aside from a sore neck and some bruising. Not sure if that was Trillium too, but the guy was prepping for the club race. At Bab 7 there was the car that ended up on its' roof in Namerow, just at Pit in.Both of these incidents occurred during the Club Race and involved racers. Racing is a whole different game. No students wrecked their cars.

Emre

[Lee]

So, Emre. Any news with the dates at Tremblant? Are we still co-hosting an event with Trillium (July) and another one with Boston (August)? What about Audi in May?

[Emre]

So, Emre. Any news with the dates at Tremblant? Are we still co-hosting an event with Trillium (July)We just had a long-ass conference call about this. I will post details soon. BTW, as we've said several times before...it's not just a Quebec/Trillium event, but an eastern event. All 4 eastern Canada chapters have agreed to collaborate in the sprit of the BMW CCA Oktoberfest.


and another one with Boston (August)?The August dates were confirmed a couple of weeks ago when I started this thread. We're co-hosting BAB-8 with Boston (again) and have already started making plans to do things a little differently. We'll announce all the details when the time is right.


What about Audi in May?That probably won't work out. We got screwed out of the May weekend. I'm sure you know the story: He promised it to us; we confirmed immediately; then he gave it to someone else. Typical Vince.

Still, two 3-day weekends at Tremblant is a lot. There's a huge financial commitment on our part. I'm not sure we could have swung a third 3-day summer weekend anyway. Tremblant now demands 50% deposits before the end of December. Plus, they've raised the rates for weekends (again). So, it's no big loss.

I've e-mailed Audi to let them know. Maybe they would be interested in co-hosting a smaller event at Sanair or another venue. We'll see.

Emre

[Lee]

We just had a long-ass conference call about this. I will post details soon. BTW, as we've said several times before...it's not just a Quebec/Trillium event, but an eastern event. All 4 eastern Canada chapters have agreed to collaborate in the sprit of the BMW CCA Oktoberfest.

Up to this minute, it was never made clear when this "BMW Fest East" would happen. Has Trillium reserved July 7-8-9 for themselve or for BMWCC? Is the Canadian Fest this weekend or the next?

[SpeedTT]

Pour ceux qui veulent aller plus souvent à Tremblant, il y aura sans doute la possibilité de le faire avec PCA NER, mais pour l'instant on ne retrouve aucune date de précisé à leur calendrier.:)

[Emre]

Up to this minute, it was never made clear when this "BMW Fest East" would happen.It takes a lot of preparation. We've been working on it for months.


Has Trillium reserved July 7-8-9 for themselves or for BMWCC?Trillium had originally booked Mon-Wed July 3-5 for their own event. The weekend of Fri-Sun July 7-9 (LeMans weekend) became available. So, after a meeting with directors from all 4 chapters, Trillium cancelled their event and we are collectively booking the July 7-9 weekend on behalf of all 4 clubs.

Emre

[Lee]

Trillium had originally booked Mon-Wed July 3-5 for their own event. The weekend of Fri-Sun July 7-9 (LeMans weekend) became available. So, after a meeting with directors from all 4 chapters, Trillium cancelled their event and we are collectively booking the July 7-9 weekend on behalf of all 4 clubs.

Emre

Great news Emre. So, July 7-8-9 is a three day DE to take place within the BMW Fest East. Because it is also sponsored by BMW Canada and because it is a BMW Fest, will non-BMW cars be allowed? Will it include a Club Race, or will it a DE-only? How have responsabilities been split between the chapters? To which level will BMW be monetary/strategically involved? What are the clubs and BMW Canada's respective involvements and responsability?

[snowmanmtl]

Besides NER, there is also CVR PCA and COMS which comes to Tremblant a couple of times a summer that allows other makes. Also there is the lapping which is mixed in with the Russell schools. Le Club is 22 days of open lapping on weekends for $6000..
I think BMW events would be much easier to run if the instructors would contribute to the cost:eek: . Free open lapping on Fri., two days with a couple of students while they get equal time on the track and a free dinner... I believe the Instructor cost is $0.00 . Give the directors and organizers a free ticket but the instructors should be willing to pay half. More people would be interested in participating if the costs were lower and the remaining instructors would be of the more dedicated type. My $.02

[Lee]

Yup. PCA-NER and COMSCC are a great gang, so are the guys from the North-East Quattro Club (Audi). This last summer, PCA NER had to readjust as the previous organizers (Margo and Arnie) left to another state and chapter.

Instructors are very important within our club. They coach novice, intermediate and 50% of the advanced drivers. Basically, we need between 2 and 2.5 instructors for each 3 students. Unlike other clubs' events, only a signed-off advanced driver can drive solo. Intermediate drivers have to have an instructor. So, in order to get 100 students registered to an event, we need to sign-up 70 instructors. Most of them will have two students, and some will have three. In both cases it is a huge commitment. Going with some students is basically a relaxed "walk in the park". Other students are more "high maintenance" and require a lot of attention. Which can be extremely tiring and nerve breaking. To the point where an instructor will only drive two sessions in one day and will take the time to relax and rest instead of driving. How could we charge them half-price for half the session? Not charging instructors is not the "only" way to have them work hard at our events. But it helps keeping them.

Instructors are invited by several chapters as they are on many instructor lists. For some of them, they will do two to three events per months during the summer season, between US and Canadian events. Because of the distances, they sometimes have to miss one day of work. And they still have to pay for their food, gaz and lodging, multiplied by two or three times per month. Not cheap. Which is why, to ensure participation from as many instructors as possible, they do not pay to work.

I am 100% sure that instructors from PCA Rennsport would be delighted to instruct and have their registration fees waved.

[bmwqc]

Instructors are very important within our club. They coach novice, intermediate and 50% of the advanced drivers. Basically, we need between 2 and 2.5 instructors for each 3 students. Unlike other clubs' events, only a signed-off advanced driver can drive solo. Intermediate drivers have to have an instructor. So, in order to get 100 students registered to an event, we need to sign-up 70 instructors. Most of them will have two students, and some will have three.

I agree that instructors are important. However, I hardly think that 70 instructors would be needed for 100 students. Assigning 2 to 3 students per instructor should require no more than 40 instructors. Keeping in mind that most Group A drivers get signed off early in the event, that's another load taken off.

I agree with Snowmanmtl regarding charging 1/2 the fee for instructors. As it stands now, the BMW clubs charge more than any other car club for DEs. Why, because all the indians have to subsidize the chiefs' fare. This is, in my opinion, a flawed business model. Many students opening complain about the high prices charged by the club, (especially when compared to what other clubs charge for the same track). Charging 1/2 rate for the instructors is not out of line. Look at the Porsche guys, the instructors py their 1/2 share and the club(s) don't seem to have trouble recruiting them. At least this would help bring down the cost for the students and then perhaps we will get more participation in future events.

[Lee]

If we had to charge instructors, then it would be when we are having a three days event with the first day being reserved to signed-off drivers and instructors. On that day, instructors do not have any student to coach. All they have to do is to have fun. Until now, instructors who are working on Saturday and Friday, get their Friday for free. Perhaps they should be charged the same fee as the signed-off student. If it were only for me, events would only be two days long as usually the Friday is a money pit which is subsidized by Saturday and Friday. Hence the higher registration fee. The problem with Tremblant is that we cannot reserve only two days. Management wants us to also rent on Friday. If we refuse, then they rent to some other club...

In regard of fees paid by PCA instructors. I usually witness a flagrant lack of instructors when PCA NER hosts an event in tremblant. They do not even have classroom instruction, and barely intermediate drivers get soloed. As for PCA Rennsport, they benefit from a huge pool of Porsche drivers and instructors from Montreal. Our chapter has 12 local instructors and we need to attract them from as far as Boston to make an event possible. Are we in position to request them to pay 50% of the fees? Not yet. We often refuse students because we lack instructors. Forcing us to raise student fees because of a lower number of students.

[bmwqc]

If we had to charge instructors, then it would be when we are having a three days event with the first day being reserved to signed-off drivers and instructors. On that day, instructors do not have any student to coach. All they have to do is to have fun. Until now, instructors who are working on Saturday and Friday, get their Friday for free. Perhaps they should be charged the same fee as the signed-off student. If it were only for me, events would only be two days long as usually the Friday is a money pit which is subsidized by Saturday and Friday. Hence the higher registration fee. The problem with Tremblant is that we cannot reserve only two days. Management wants us to also rent on Friday. If we refuse, then they rent to some other club...

If the instructors were to pay 1/2 the rate of the students, that would contribute a long way towards reducing the fees charged to the students.
A lot of students find the track fees charged by the BMW clubs to be too high.

As far as Friday's session is concerned, it should be treated as a separate event (and thus would need to be financially feasible on its own) and not having to leech off the students fees from the Saturday and Sunday event. The only way to do that would be to have every Friday participant pay.


It's all the more reason why instructors should be paying their share (1/2 the rate of the students).

[bmwqc]

In regard of fees paid by PCA instructors. I usually witness a flagrant lack of instructors when PCA NER hosts an event in tremblant. They do not even have classroom instruction, and barely intermediate drivers get soloed. As for PCA Rennsport, they benefit from a huge pool of Porsche drivers and instructors from Montreal. Our chapter has 12 local instructors and we need to attract them from as far as Boston to make an event possible. Are we in position to request them to pay 50% of the fees? Not yet. We often refuse students because we lack instructors. Forcing us to raise student fees because of a lower number of students.

Here is where the BMW club is different. We ALWAYS have a classroom instructor regardless of the size of the school. We have classroom sessions even for one-day events.

As far as scaring away potential instructors because they have to pay a token fee. I don't agree. Serious drivers who make it up to the instructor level will pay to get in the track time. Now if all the clubs do the same, so that there are no freebies around, then there's no choice.

[Lee]

BMW Club fees are higher? Do you mean that events held at le Circuit more expensive than those held in Mosport? If so, that is because Tremblant is about twice the price to rent. Then if compared with Audi, we are cheaper. If you compare with BAB7, then may I say that in my opinion, it was a financially mismanaged event.

When we do Sanair or Mecaglisse, we charge around $150 and barely break even. How cheaper can we go? Charging instructors will garantee that we loose a few instructors. Each instructor brings two students. We risk to loose two complete registration fees in order to save 50% of one fee. Honestly, if I am asked to pay 50% fee, and do only 2 sessions per day because my students are exuasting me, then I'd rather pay 100% and not instruct. And from experience, I am not the only one to think alike. I see no problem to work for free (getting free track time in exchange is a fair deal for me). But I would not pay to work.

Honestly, there are much better ways to lower student fees. Let's start by not renting a $5kusd big tent. Cut on a $35usd dinner. Right of the bat, this is $100 cdn off each student fee... Okay and now a question for everyone. Who will pay if we loose money at an event? If we end up $5k under? Every event factors in a realistic number of students. If we have more, whatever small benefit goes into the bank so that next time we know where to get the money if we do not break even. Let's all remember that ONE bad event and we go bankrupt and close the club. Organizing an event is nerve breaking. We only know a few days in advance if we loose money or not. and we cannot also afford to only know a few days in advance if we have enough instructors. Instructors can only afford a certain budget per summer. Start charging them and they will cut their number of events per half. Half as many instructors available, makes organizing event very stressfull.

[blacksheep]

I don't think charging instructors would fly. But then, what do I know?

I don't think that BMW club event prices are unreasonable. Prices are in line with a well-run event with quality instruction.

IMO People who complain about the price are just looking for an excuse not to go. If the price went down they would find another excuse and still wouldn't go.

Events at Sanair and Mecaglisse are really inexpensive and well run.

Tremblant is expensive because, well, it's Tremblant. Even private "invite-only" events on weekdays, without instructors and no overhead are $300 per driver.

A 2-day weekend event with instruction for ~$500 isn't bad.

I only wish there was a way to get more time on-track per day. But then, we'd need to eliminate one group and the cost would go up accordingly.

Or get rid of the race?

[bmwqc]

BMW Club fees are higher? Do you mean that events held at le Circuit more expensive than those held in Mosport? If so, that is because Tremblant is about twice the price to rent. Then if compared with Audi, we are cheaper. If you compare with BAB7, then may I say that in my opinion, it was a financially mismanaged event.


Comparing apples with apples only, the same track (i.e. Tremblant). different club (BMW vs Porsche), the Porsche events are at least $100 cheaper per student.

BAB7 should have made money (lots of it). The fact that it did not is a bid disappointment and only goes to show how important it is for the organizer of an event to grab the bull by the horns right from the begining.

[Lee]

For BAB7, the bull was grabbed by the horns, and even by the balls. Let's just say that we have been bullied and that all we could do was to take the "punches". There comes a moment in the process when the only thing to do is to let go and hope the other party realizes its mistake. For BAB8 we are certainly going to ask Boston chapter to present us BAB7's financial statements to see how we can do "better". Financially speaking, every sector should be self-sufficient and should not be subsidized by others. CR should be self contained, Friday too, as well as the DE. Instructors who want to drive on Friday shall pay for it (70 instructors who pay $150 each for Friday is $10k extra money, and that extra money translates as being a $100 discount per student). BTW, even $150cdn doesn't cover the expenses. I do not think there is a reason for Friday to be subsidized by Saturday and Sunday's fees. I also believe that the dinner charge should be an option. Track rats much prefer eating out at other restaurant, but many people still like the dinner. Perhaps it should be a much better value (bang for the buck) than what it has been in the past years. I trully enjoyed MidSummer Heat when we had a dinner at "Le Bernardin" in the old village. It was $25cdn, all included and we felt we had a great deal for excellent food.

[bmwqc]

For BAB7, the bull was grabbed by the horns, and even by the balls.

I was not referring to the Quebec chapter re/this.

[SpeedTT]

On parle beaucoup d'argent, il est question d'avoir des prix abordables mais n'oublions pas quelques chose d'important. La location de la tente et le buffet en moins peuvent réduire de façon substantielle la facture MAIS... se débarasser de la tente va permettre d'éliminer UN GROS IRRITANT... L'ESPACE OCCUPÉ PAR CETTE STRUCTURE. Ainsi il était difficile de trouver une place pour garer nos voitures parce que la tente prenait énormément de place dans le PARKING.
La tente et le buffet en moins= coûts plus bas et plus de place...:)

[bmwqc]

On parle beaucoup d'argent, il est question d'avoir des prix abordables mais n'oublions pas quelques chose d'important. La location de la tente et le buffet en moins peuvent réduire de façon substantielle la facture MAIS... se débarasser de la tente va permettre d'éliminer UN GROS IRRITANT... L'ESPACE OCCUPÉ PAR CETTE STRUCTURE. Ainsi il était difficile de trouver une place pour garer nos voitures parce que la tente prenait énormément de place dans le PARKING.
La tente et le buffet en moins= coûts plus bas et plus de place...:)



Obviously money and practicality go hand in hand. As you emphasized,
the real cost of renting that tent went beyond just monetary as many much needed parking spots were lost in the process.

[Lee]

I think that everyone agreed that the white tent was also a white... elephant. A mistake not to be repeated. I think that a smaller one (20" x 20") is great to host registration and instructors'/organizers' headquarters. Beyond that, it becomes an annoyance.

BTW another way to lower the registration fee is to have event-specific sponsors. But it becomes difficult at Tremblant because the management wants a share of the pie. Having three main sponsors at $5k a-piece, for three days, would be a nice way to help lower registration fees.

[SpeedTT]

Au fait Touchette Tire paie t-elle pour VENDRE SES PRODUITS ET SERVICES???. Si elle ne paie pas, peut-être qu'une autre entreprise sérieuse pourrait devenir commenditaire et du même coup vendres des pneus et faire des installation et balancement... Je dis cela comme cela. A vous de faire du pouce sur cette idée.

[bmwqc]

Au fait Touchette Tire paie t-elle pour VENDRE SES PRODUITS ET SERVICES???. Si elle ne paie pas, peut-être qu'une autre entreprise sérieuse pourrait devenir commenditaire et du même coup vendres des pneus et faire des installation et balancement... Je dis cela comme cela. A vous de faire du pouce sur cette idée.

I believe Touchette Tires have an exclusive arrangement with the track.

[snowmanmtl]

I believe they do as well. Used to be Talon tire. From what I have seen they do not sell many tires at the BMW events. Mostly tire changes. I don't think that they would be willing to contribute very much. As well, it is very convenient to have them there.

[Lee]

I believe they do as well. Used to be Talon tire. From what I have seen they do not sell many tires at the BMW events. Mostly tire changes. I don't think that they would be willing to contribute very much. As well, it is very convenient to have them there.

Touchette does sell enough tires and services enough cars to make it worth it. Our club doesn't pay for them to be there, and they help a lot of drivers. It is a win-win situation. When they came to the Fall Classic race weekend, they were a bit pissed as they made almolst no sale and rthe weekend ended up costing a lot. They told me they appreciate being at our events.

[Emre]

I believe they do as well. Used to be Talon tire. From what I have seen they do not sell many tires at the BMW events.They sold tons at BAB-7. Having the racers there makes a huge difference.

Emre

[Karin]

Can I express my enthusiasm as well:)

[Emre]

Can I express my enthusiasm as well:)Bien sur (hon, hon, hon).

Emre

[Karin]

Well, now that I have a reliable (and cool) car I'm really looking forward to the next driving season. Emre and Lee, please let me know how I can help with organisation or volunteering. You know I'm always up for it.
Woohoo!

[Lee]

Well, now that I have a reliable (and cool) car I'm really looking forward to the next driving season. Emre and Lee, please let me know how I can help with organisation or volunteering. You know I'm always up for it.
Woohoo!

Yes. We know you are always up for "it". But there is nothing I can do on that matter. Emre?

[Emre]

Yes. We know you are always up for "it". But there is nothing I can do on that matter. Emre?Stop being a pervert. :p

Emre

[Karin]

Don't make me regret my decision to do good deeds for the club!!!

[Lee]

Don't make me regret my decision to do good deeds for the club!!!

No!!! Please, stay. I will be a good boy from now on...

[Karin]

I'll just pick and choose my words better from now on... I forgot who I was dealing with ;)
You can still count on my help. Is that better?

[johnmdanskin]

For BAB7, the bull was grabbed by the horns, and even by the balls. Let's just say that we have been bullied and that all we could do was to take the "punches". There comes a moment in the process when the only thing to do is to let go and hope the other party realizes its mistake. For BAB8 we are certainly going to ask Boston chapter to present us BAB7's financial statements to see how we can do "better". Financially speaking, every sector should be self-sufficient and should not be subsidized by others. CR should be self contained, Friday too, as well as the DE. Instructors who want to drive on Friday shall pay for it (70 instructors who pay $150 each for Friday is $10k extra money, and that extra money translates as being a $100 discount per student). BTW, even $150cdn doesn't cover the expenses. I do not think there is a reason for Friday to be subsidized by Saturday and Sunday's fees. I also believe that the dinner charge should be an option. Track rats much prefer eating out at other restaurant, but many people still like the dinner. Perhaps it should be a much better value (bang for the buck) than what it has been in the past years. I trully enjoyed MidSummer Heat when we had a dinner at "Le Bernardin" in the old village. It was $25cdn, all included and we felt we had a great deal for excellent food.

how did this go?

[Lee]

Don't ask.

My guess is that we will co-host with Audi next year in August.