Anybody have any input on Barber Motorsport park

[snowmanmtl]

I'm on my way to VIR and I saw that there is a Sunshine BMW Club event at Barber next weekend. Anybody have any input on Barber? Places to stay? Also do I sign up as an advanced DE or Solo? What is this solo thing? They don't let Pcars in their club races, do they Lee?:D

[Lee]

Isn't Sunshine Bimmer a club from Florida? BTW I do not know Barber Motorsport Park. If there is a club race, then you must hold a Club Racing license to participate and race a BMW. If you run a P-Car, then you are not eligible. To get a CR license, you must have at least 8 events under your belt, be recommended by your chapter chief instructor and some other key persons. How many events have you done with your chapter?

[Emre]

Anybody have any input on Barber? Places to stay?I've never been to Barber, but I hear it's a fun track. And the weather should be nice this time of year. Sounds like fun!


Also do I sign up as an advanced DE or Solo? What is this solo thing?If you have to ask...then you don't qualify :p LOL. Solo drivers are very advanced students who are allowed to hit the track without an instructor. In your case, I imagine you'd need to register for the school and let them put you in the appropriate group. BTW, if the only options are "advanced DE" or "solo" then you might not qualify at all. Sometimes clubs will run events for advanced students only...from what you've posted, it sounds like this might be one of those events.


They don't let Pcars in their club races, do they Lee?:DNo, you can't run a Porsche in BMW CCA Club Racing.

Emre

[snowmanmtl]

Thanks anyway. I was just teasing Lee about the Pcar in a Bmw Club race because he seems to bring up Rennsport not allowing BMW's often. Aren't you Instructor people supposed to be encouraging people to participate? I have experience on the track. As a matter of fact, I just completed tha TRAC Racing School and received the race certificate. I thought Solo was individual timed runs?

[Lee]

Rennsport doesn't allow ANY type of cars other than P-cars. The BMW club allows any make of car. Yes, we are encouraging all drivers to attend our events. Just to compare, how many brands of cars do you see at PCA events? How many do you see at BMW events? That tells a lot about how our organization wants to promote good driving. We teach anybody with a car in good condition. We believe that the driving technique doesn't come along with the car, and that sticking big numbers on the doors is not enough to claim being a proper driver.

A Club Race has nothing to do with a driver school. And this is why a Club Racing license is required. Just try to register to an SCCA event without a proper license. On the other side of the continent, mostly California, but also in Florida, some joint races are organized between BMWCCA Club Racing and PCA Club Racing, and a proper license is required. Do you have one or another?

Your mention about TRAC "so-called" racing, will not bring you many points here as they are recognized as a sub-level organization, not only by us, but also by many FAQ licensed racers. Two days is not enough to make someone a racer. It requires much more track time than that, just to be a good driver, and even more to be a racer. The only reason why they are recognized by FAQ is that nobody else wants to do it. Basi and Jim Russel as also recognized, but they mostly appeal to F1600/2000 trainees.

[lapperspeed]

Two days is not enough to make someone a racer. It requires much more track time than that, just to be a good driver, and even more to be a racer.

Lee. You can get a road race license in 3 days at Russell and participate to any canadian road race the next day.



The only reason why they are recognized by FAQ is that nobody else wants to do it.

False. FAQ will deliver a road race license to a graduate of an accredited racing school. FAQ's accreditation criterias are also based on ASN CANADA FIA criterias. The TRAC school meets those criterias. So do Jim Russell and Basi and the Bridgestone Racing Academy and other US schools. That said, every school is different. Its like getting your law degree from McGill or from Université de Montréal. You will, in both cases, be eligible to the Bar association exam. Wich one is the best? Your call. :)

Stéphane D'Amato
Director, SOLOSPORT
FAQ

[Emre]

You can get a road race license in 3 days at Russell and participate to any canadian road race the next day.Sure, but do you think that's a good idea? Trac is notorious for giving race licenses to complete novices. And from everything I've seen and heard, their "race school" has pretty minimal race content. Personally, I'd be very uncomfortable going "doorhandle to doorhandle" with a novice who was handed an FAQ license after a single weekend at with Trac.

Emre

[Lee]

Thanks Stephane for your constructive comments. I knew that locally, Jim Russel and Basi were recognized as race schools. Nonetheless, I doubt that they will hand a certificate for racing to a novice who has done only 2 track days in its life. During a race, is not the time to learn driving.

My experience with Trac was totally unsatisfatory. I was told that I would attend a race school. Great. I already had several years of track under my belt and wanted my ASN/FIA license for vintage racing. I was extremely disapointed by the content of that training. Basically, 90% of that content was destined for the novice crowd. Barely 10% was actually related to racing: practicing starts and passing in corners. There was no seminar specific to racing and no specific technic either. Obviously I let Trahan know about my disapointnment regading the so-called racing instruction and was told that if I did not like it, I could simply go home. And that they were pro at training racers. That is how good those kids are. In my group, there were drivers who were totally terrrorized of being on a track and were damn dangerous in corners. If it was a real race school, then you should not be allowed to register if you did not feel comfortable with the environment. BTW When I have novice students, the first thing I do is to make my students comfortable with the track and the other cars. They will then have a much better judgement, not tainted by fear or emotions. And I am talking novices here, not registrants to a race school.

[lapperspeed]

I agree with both Emre and Lee when stating that a 2-day school isn't enough to learn to be a racer. Probably not enough too to be a safe driver in a racing context.

Lee, I understand that you had a bad experience with the TRAC racing school. Your opinion is important (sounds like an ad...) and as a FAQ board member, I will consider it when time comes to evaluate FAQ's accreditation program for road racing school.

We have to remember that every school accredited by FAQ in Québec, CASC-OR in Ontario or ASN approuved is nothing close to what you and I think what a racing school should be. SCCA has a much better system...

I've been to Russell and can tell you that they don't teach you to race at all. It's a 3-day lapping session in a F-2000 for Ferrari and Porsche owners (and BMWs of course ;)) Yet, you can hit the track next day in a full fledged race car. Yes, scary...

I like your approach to track days and racing in general.

Stéphane

[Lee]

Hey Stéphane, if you ever want to talk to me directly, perhaps you could give me a call at home (514 289-9603). I understand that FAQ doesn't have much choice when it comes to accredite a training school, and this is in part why TRAC is approved. Perhaps FAQ can require a specific content, and that only drivers with proper experience can register to a racing school in order to get a license. Don"t public and private schools have to follow a certain program dictated by the governement? The same should apply to race schools.

As an event organizer, I have been asked so many times if we were accredited to issue a recognition of skills to get an ASN/FIA license with FAQ. The answer was obviously negative. Do we want to go this way? Maybe not (even though we have the potential), but at least we welcome novice to advanced/soloed drivers and those with top experience wanting to get a license can usuallly be paired with racers instructors. This way they get teached certain racing techniques not "officially" offered by most instructors. I like to teach how to drive offline, take passes in corners, lift the throttle while cornering to help rotate the car and other black magic. Perhaps one day, you could visit us at one of our events. You will witness happy drivers in a low key environement where safety is rule #1.

Lee


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v668/Lee_Vuong/2002%20folder/DSC02516.jpg

[lapperspeed]

Lee, I will get in touch with you and I will attend one of your event in 2006.

And I know that famous red car! My co-driver David is salivating when he sees it...

Steph

[snowmanmtl]

This was my third visit there this year and it gets better each time. Weather was great all three days. I would highly recommend the BMW Tarheel event in the spring to anyone who is thinking about a little adventure south. Could not make the Barber event because of a bent axle on the trailer!!! The thing is 8 months old. Hope Wells Cargo lives up to their warranty. Will be heading back in a couple of weeks for another event or two at VIR and then further south.
Read the thread on how to post a pic. Just want to see if it works. Old pic to test.

[snowmanmtl]

try again.



http://www.pbase.com/porschepower/image/44074155

Will only work as a link? I guess I'm not doing it right.

[Lee]

try again.



http://www.pbase.com/porschepower/image/44074155

Will only work as a link? I guess I'm not doing it right.

You need to go on your photo hosting site. Copy the "image location" of the picture, then in this site's window you click on the little yellow square with a mountain and a sun above it. Paste the image's URL. Voilà. Hope you had fun at VIR. It is great track.

http://i.pbase.com/u26/porschepower/upload/44074155._MG_7407.JPG

[blacksheep]

what Lee said is correct, however the picture is not showing up because the pbase.com site doesn't allow remote linking (embedding one of their images in another site)

your link works fine ... your car looks GREAT with those wheels