La place des décapotable au club l'an prochain

[SpeedTT]

J'ai des amis qui vont s'inscrire au club BMW dans les prochaines semaines. Mes deux frères vont faire de même prochainement. Or tout ce beau monde est propriétaire de Miatas. Certains on des Hard Dog d'autres on des toits durs et finalement certains ont les 2. Ma question est la suivante, quelles seront les règles pour les propriétaires de décaotables qui désirent faire les evemens du club l'an prochain. De plus si cette décision n'est pas arrêté pour l'an prochain, quand cette décison sera t-elle prise?:confused: :confused:

[Emre]

J'ai des amis qui vont s'inscrire au club BMW dans les prochaines semaines. Mes deux frères vont faire de même prochainement. Or tout ce beau monde est propriétaire de Miatas. Certains on des Hard Dog d'autres on des toits durs et finalement certains ont les 2. Ma question est la suivante, quelles seront les règles pour les propriétaires de décaotables qui désirent faire les evemens du club l'an prochain. De plus si cette décision n'est pas arrêté pour l'an prochain, quand cette décison sera t-elle prise?:confused: :confused:My French is rather weak, so I may not have understood your question fully. But, when it comes to convertibles, most clubs have similar rules. You need to have a rollbar that comes up higher than the heads of the driver and passenger.

There is something called the "broomstick test," in which you put the broomstick between the top of the windshield and the bottom of the of the main hoop on the rollbar. If any part of the driver's helmet sticks up past the broomstick, the car fails tech inspection.

Because the MX-5 Miata is such a popular track car, there are a number of "off the shelf" rollbars that will pass tech. The Hard Dog is the most common.

Emre

[blacksheep]

Pfff! Moi je suis totalement contre. Laisser rouler des Miata sur le circuit? Pas question!

Si ils laissent rouler des Miata, j'imagine qu'ensuite ils vont permettre à des honda civic de rouler sur circuit? Quel sacrilège!!

:p

[SpeedTT]

First Emre you understand verry well a text in french. Thanks for the informations. I ask this question because i observe some diference into some club. For example ( for Miata car ) Audi Club riquire roll bar but if you have a hard top the roll bar are not require. For Porshe the car have to past the broomstick test.

[Emre]

First Emre you understand verry well a text in french. Thanks for the informations. I ask this question because i observe some diference into some club. For example ( for Miata car ) Audi Club riquire roll bar but if you have a hard top the roll bar are not require. For Porshe the car have to past the broomstick test.Sure, some clubs have lower standards. However, the broomstick test is pretty much the strictest test...and it's universal. If you have a properly designed, SCCA approved 4-point rollbar and can pass the broomstick test, literally everyone will accept it. The nice thing about the Hard Dog is that you can still use the factory MX-5 soft-top.

Emre

[Nano]

First Emre you understand verry well a text in french. Thanks for the informations. I ask this question because i observe some diference into some club. For example ( for Miata car ) Audi Club riquire roll bar but if you have a hard top the roll bar are not require. For Porshe the car have to past the broomstick test.

BMW trillium chapter doesn't require anything... might be interesting for beginners with convertibles who aren't sure if they will pick up the hobby or not, or people who want to do a 1 time school...

Not sure how long they going to keep it that way though as it doesn't make much sense.

this picture was taken at mosport...

http://www.psycode.com/albums/mosport-sep2005/mo31.jpg

[Lee]

For having witnessed several roll-overs at track events, I think that a rollbar on a convertible is a minimum requirement. And even a rollbar will not protect much in a severe roll-over.

[Emre]

BMW trillium chapter doesn't require anything...Not sure how long they going to keep it that way though as it doesn't make much sense.I'm not 100% sure, but I think they still require that the car has some sort of roll protection. For example, I know that they will allow Z3 roadsters, S2000's, and Boxsters, all of which have factory roll hoops. However, I seem to recall that they would not allow cars like an E30 cabrio or Alfa Romeo Spider that do not have any form of roll protection. But I could be wrong about that.

Emre

[Emre]

For having witnessed several roll-overs at track events, I think that a rollbar on a convertible is a minimum requirement. And even a rollbar will not protect much in a severe roll-over.Agreed x1000. I once instructed a horrible student in a heavily modified S2000 at one of Blake's schools. This guy was arrogant, unskilled, disrespectful, ignorant, yet thought he knew everything. He had full coilovers (all he knew about them was that they were JDM), 6-piston Endless big brake kit (also JDM), and a bunch of other crap...but no roll protection (I guess roll protection must not be JDM...because he wasn't interested).

Anyway, after that I realized just how exposed you are in a cabrio. This guy had such poor technique and his car was set up so badly that we just understeered through every corner. He was slow as hell. Yet, I found it very unnerving. I would never get into another student's cabrio without at least a properly sized 4-point rollbar.

Emre

[SpeedTT]

I apreciate a lot this discussion. When some persons exchange diferents points of view, this is a beginning of evolution. I agree Emre and Lee, a rollbar (4 points) it's a good move for the safety of the diver and tne INSTRUCTOR...

[Lee]

BTW Allowing (or not) certain type of cars is at the discretion of every chapter. It is usually related to the experience of the organizers. Our chapter will accept convertibles with no roll-over protection on a small and slower track such as Mecaglisse because the risks are lesser than at a faster track such as Tremblant where it is aboslutely mandatory to have a rollbar, and not just pop-up hoops. Some chapters will allow trucks such as the BMW X3/X5 or Porsche Cayenne (and also other Fords and Chevies), but our chapter doesn't feel they are safe for our kind of high performance driving. An X5, per exemple, is much better than most SUVs on fast roads, but it is not yet as stable as a touring car. Filtering types of cars is only a way to avoid incidents that can be harmfull or even lethal, both for drivers and instructors.

There comes a time when velocities at a driver school are just as par as what is reached in a race. Hence the absolute necessity for being carefull when accepting cars.

[blacksheep]

http://www.fota.net/S2000/autocross/4-22-00.jpg

I'm pretty sure that stock S2000's pass the broomstick test. Also don't forget that the plastic "roll hoops" are hiding a strong metal roll bar

But if you still don't feel safe ...

http://www.scienceofspeed.com/revolutionized/ScienceofSpeed/S2000/ScienceofSpeed_Race_S2000/images/windshieldtie.jpg

[Andre]

Agreed x1000. I once instructed a horrible student in a heavily modified S2000 at one of Blake's schools. This guy was arrogant, unskilled, disrespectful, ignorant, yet thought he knew everything.
Emre

Yikes! :eek:

Just out of curiosity, I imagine that it happens that you have misgivings about certain students; does it ever happen that you really don't/won't get into a car with a student. If so, how do you deal with such a situation?

-a-

[Emre]

does it ever happen that you really don't/won't get into a car with a student. If so, how do you deal with such a situation?Yes, that does happen from time to time. Most people attend schools to improve themselves. But some people attend schools just to say that they did it, show off how "fast" they are, and/or compete with their friends. Invariably, these are these are the slowest guys on the track despite their fast cars!

Ultimately, it's the instructor's call. You make it clear to the student that you're in charge. If the guy gets out of hand, you pull him (it's almost always a him!) into the pits and have a chat. If that doesn't do the trick, you talk to the chief instructor and you kick the guy out. The chief instructor will almost always defer to the judgement of the in-car instructor.

These guys don't last long.

Emre