View Full Version : Charity car show in Laval -- Sept. 16th
Hi, guys.
Just got word of a major automotive car show for charity:
http://www.montrealracing.com/upload3/gp.jpg
http://gallery.montrealracing.com/d/38756-1/gp004.jpg
http://gallery.montrealracing.com/d/38796-1/gp024.jpg
This show generally attracts lots of exotics, Euro tuners, and vintage muscle cars. Not many ricers from what I hear ;) Seems like an appropriate venue for the BMW Club of Quebec.
Just thought our members might be interested.
Emre
If I remember, I think they had this on the news last year. It would be good to have a booth with BMW club of Quebec cars. I would be a cheap add for the club. some race cars and modified BMW's would attract for sure.
Henry pointed out that this car show is one week before the Fall Tour with Ottawa (Sept 23rd) and two weeks before AutumnLeaves at LCMT. So, we're not sure how much interest there would be.
Personally, I'd like to see at least a small group there. Maybe get a couple of M cars, track cars, vintage cars, etc. just like we did at SCP7 last October. Even 2-3 cars would be fine. We still have plenty of BMW Club of Quebec fliers left over from SCP7.
I think it would be good promotion for the Club. This is the first year that we've had MASSIVE turn-out from local drivers at our events. I think our efforts to publicize our Club and its driving events has been paying off. Personally, I think we should continue.
Besides that, we have many members who have beautiful Bimmers that they prefer not to track. This might be a fun day for them.
Emre
Is there some fliers here or you have them with you? sometimes when you talk to someone about the club and the HPDE that we offer its more formal than just letting them the club website on a piece of paper.
Would it be a good idea to do some smaller ones like 6"x8" that we can fold in 2 like a greeting card. with some pictures of the cars on track, the schedule of the year and website info.
Because the one that we have now were big and flashy for the car show, but I was thinking of something you can carry easily in your glove box and give to interested people.
Silverblades181
08-28-2007, 02:24 PM
Is there some fliers here or you have them with you? sometimes when you talk to someone about the club and the HPDE that we offer its more formal than just letting them the club website on a piece of paper.
Would it be a good idea to do some smaller ones like 6"x8" that we can fold in 2 like a greeting card. with some pictures of the cars on track, the schedule of the year and website info.
Because the one that we have now were big and flashy for the car show, but I was thinking of something you can carry easily in your glove box and give to interested people.
I agree, I gave the forum's website quite a few times on a piece of paper, a flyer would be more "professional"
bmwqc
08-28-2007, 03:08 PM
Who has the leftover flyers from last year's SCP7?
Is there some fliers here or you have them with you? sometimes when you talk to someone about the club and the HPDE that we offer its more formal than just letting them the club website on a piece of paper.
Would it be a good idea to do some smaller ones like 6"x8" that we can fold in 2 like a greeting card. with some pictures of the cars on track, the schedule of the year and website info.
Because the one that we have now were big and flashy for the car show, but I was thinking of something you can carry easily in your glove box and give to interested people.
Is there some fliers here or you have them with you?We have a million left over from the SCP7 show last October. I believe Eric has them, though he may have given them to Cherif by now (not sure).
sometimes when you talk to someone about the club and the HPDE that we offer its more formal than just letting them the club website on a piece of paper.I agree. It's always nice to have a card or something. I carried around a small box of our orange fliers for most of this year. I've handed out tons of them at events and stuff. I think they're perfect for car shows
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i252/GregsterGSi06/SCP/MM501.jpg
BTW, I also REALLY LOVE those "Get on Track!" license plate inserts Eric prepared and the silver "bmwquebec.ca" windshield banners Azad cut for us. I was very proud of our SCP7 display!
Would it be a good idea to do some smaller ones like 6"x8" that we can fold in 2 like a greeting card. with some pictures of the cars on track, the schedule of the year and website info...Because the one that we have now were big and flashy for the car show, but I was thinking of something you can carry easily in your glove box and give to interested people.Again, I agree. The problem is, it's much more expensive to print business cards then the large 8.5 x 5.5" fliers Eric printed for the SCP show. If we want to do something different, we'd need to make a budget for it. I like those small glossy post-cards, but it turns out they're very expensive.
Emre
blacksheep? or Emre maybe. I dont have any left...
I was thinking of paper ones but something smaller like a flier in a touristic booth. Not in color or plastic just pretty much the same as the one we had for scp but something you dont need to put in a drawer to keep them clean.
Because the problem with the orange ones is that they are big and easy to wear.
blacksheep
08-28-2007, 10:54 PM
We have a million left over from the SCP7 show last October. I believe Eric has them, though he may have given them to Cherif by now (not sure).Those flyers need to be in the city somewhere, NOT in my garage.
I had given them to Cherif but somehow they ended up back at my place. If someone in the city has room for them let me know ... they're in a box about the size of a microwave
If scheduling permits, you are more than welcome to use my race car again if some one picks it up/returns it and gives it a quick wash.
And also remembers to keep the fan switch on!
:D
Phil
Ah... The "famous" fan switch...
Why not bring three M3s?
But as last years has showed, those three days can be very long and exhausting. Who's willing to volunteer?
What about on-site "entertainment" to motivate passer-bys to spend more time?
And also remembers to keep the fan switch on!Hey, no one told me anything about a fan switch :eek: :o
But as last years has showed, those three days can be very long and exhausting. Who's willing to volunteer?Yes, but it can be fun if you get the right group of people together. Besides, this is just one afternoon. No big deal.
What about on-site "entertainment" to motivate passer-bys to spend more time?Talk about a one-track mind :rolleyes: :D
Emre
I will be there 3 days if I have to.
Silverblades181
08-29-2007, 05:54 PM
I live 2 blocks from there, I can be there.
Talk about a one-track mind :rolleyes: :D
Emre
I meant in-car and racing videos on a big screen. Unless you have something else in mind :p
BTW If our plan is to attract people to our events, wouldn't it be wiser to do a similar activity when we know what our calendar will be? I am pretty sure there will be something similar in the Spring time. Then, we can give away flyers with event dates. And open the possibility to sign people in with a prefered rate. Now the season is (almost) over.
I meant in-car and racing videos on a big screen.It's not that kind of a show. This is more of a show-n-shine for exotics and muscle cars. It will just be a few cars on display for an afternoon. Besides, it's for a good cause.
If our plan is to attract people to our events, wouldn't it be wiser to do a similar activity when we know what our calendar will be? I am pretty sure there will be something similar in the Spring time. Then, we can give away flyers with event dates. And open the possibility to sign people in with a prefered rate. Now the season is (almost) over.True. However, this event has very high exposure (including even TV coverage) and seems to be pretty well attended. If we put a couple of interesting cars on display and hand out a bunch of fliers, that can't hurt. At the very least it will attract a few people to our website. And some of those Lotus, Corvette, NSX, etc. guys might be interested in what we do and consider joining us in the future.
I think these kinds of shows are pretty important for clubs like ours. And it costs us nothing. Unlike the annual SCP show, we don't need a big display or significant manpower.
Emre
Hey Emre. I thought we were discussing about SCP in October: 3 days. Fan switch.
That one-day charity thing is obviously a very different event. BTW The increase of local drivers at events such as MidsummerHeat is mainly due to our exposure to other local car clubs (including CADL, Audi, PCA, Ottawa chapter) and let's highlight that the experience from past years has shown that the show'n'shine crowd never leaves parking lots, or even drives on highway to visit a track event.
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i252/GregsterGSi06/SCP/MM501.jpg
let's highlight that the experience from past years has shown that the show'n'shine crowd never leaves parking lots, or even drives on highway to visit a track event.If you look at some of the newest members of our chapter, you'll see that quite a few of them are converted show-n-shiners.
Anyway, anything that raises the profile of the club and exposes us to more people is a good thing in my book.
Emre
BTW The increase of local drivers at events such as MidsummerHeat is mainly due to our exposure to other local car clubs (including CADL, Audi, PCA, Ottawa chapter)
People from other clubs are already in the DE/track bussiness, they already know. What is the alternative to attracting new blood? People with potential interest in DEs but never set foot on a track and don't have a clue where to start. What does the club do to get new blood? new blood is important
bmwqc
08-29-2007, 10:56 PM
People from other clubs are already in the DE/track bussiness, they already know. What is the alternative to attracting new blood? People with potential interest in DEs but never set foot on a track and don't have a clue where to start. What does the club do to get new blood? new blood is important
It is true that other clubs do indeed hold their own track events. But due to their smaller size, (dedicated members notwithstanding) not all of them are able to commit to a major track like LCMT, so there is a niche to be exploited, especially with the ongoing discriminatory policies of a certain large local club (that requires you actually own a car of that brand) in order to participate in their DEs. To those people from the outside looking in, our club welcomes them with open arms.
The local Show'n'shine crowd has a lot of money... in their car. But none left for fuel... That's sad, but that's the reality of Montreal. They don't drive any further than Boulevard St. Jean and doing photoshoots is what interests them most. Let's witness what's going on Montreal Racing, and that's a clear view of the local show'n'shine crowd. They won't drive to SAnair to display their BMW, or even less attend a track event. At all.
If there is any energy to be spend toward reaching more attendants to our events, why not work on our website, on our relations with other "converted" drivers and local car clubs. Why not simply make our events even better? Our chapter lacks volunteers. If there is energy to be spent, let's put it in the right place. Last MidsummerHeat was great, but could have used 4 or 5 more volunteers to make Henry's task easier. It's sad to say, but when organizers are exhausted, they might not continue organizing events. So, let's work together in the right direction. What I am trying to say is that if 6 volunteers spend 15 hours each at a show'n'shine, then those 90 hours of volunteering would yeld better results if spent in the right department.
The upper comments apply to SCP. In regard of the invitation to the charity car show, I think it is a great idea. Fast-in, fast-out. No energy to spend. People with more money than those at SCP...
Last MidsummerHeat was great, but could have used 4 or 5 more volunteers to make Henry's task easier. It's sad to say, but when organizers are exhausted, they might not continue organizing events. So, let's work together in the right direction. What I am trying to say is that if 6 volunteers spend 15 hours each at a show'n'shine, then those 90 hours of volunteering would yeld better results if spent in the right department.
...
The same people that were volunteers for midsummerheat will probably be the same ones that will help for the SCP. Last year the people that were there pretty much all week end were: Emre, Eric, David and I.
As far as I know we are people that invest time in pretty much every event of the club.
I think that we can attract good people this year too. There is not only ricers at those events.
blacksheep
08-30-2007, 10:07 AM
... Why not simply make our events even better? Our chapter lacks volunteers. If there is energy to be spent, let's put it in the right place. Last MidsummerHeat was great, but could have used 4 or 5 more volunteers to make Henry's task easier. It's sad to say, but when organizers are exhausted, they might not continue organizing events. So, let's work together in the right direction. What I am trying to say is that if 6 volunteers spend 15 hours each at a show'n'shine, then those 90 hours of volunteering would yeld better results if spent in the right department.
The upper comments apply to SCP. In regard of the invitation to the charity car show, I think it is a great idea. Fast-in, fast-out. No energy to spend. People with more money than those at SCP...Lee, you've repeated about 50 times that you think SCP is a waste of time. I think we ALL know by now that you're 100% against the idea.
The suggestion to continue improving the driving events and the web site are all valid (come on people, please submit some stories or articles for the web site!) but if we want to "PROMOTE" the club we need to reach out to new people otherwise where are new members going to come from?
Practically EVERYBODY who does track events in Quebec already knows about the BMW club. Doing SCP makes us visible to new people who are interested in what we do but don't know how to begin. Just because they attend a "show and shine" doesn't mean they're not interested in Driver's Education and won't participate one day.
Saying that "everybody who attends SCP is a ricer with no money" is a huge generalization and extremely chauvinistic. If you'd spent 30 minutes in the booth last year you would have seen there was a LOT of interest for what we do. Many people I talked to last year told me "I just came here to spend a day with some friends; I hate these shows, but I'm really interested in doing track events. I noticed your booth and came over to see what this is about"
Maybe there's only a tiny percentage of the spectators who are interested what we do. Let's be extremely conservative and estimate 1%; out of 50,000 that's still 500 people - a substantial number. If just 2% of those 500 people sign up for an an event, that's 10 more participants and it can make the difference between a successful event or a money-loser. Just getting our message to 0.02% (1/5000) of the crowd @ SCP can have a substantial effect on the club's financial stability and the success of our track events.
And if the cars in our booth have stickers promoting club sponsors, the extra exposure makes their sponsorship investment even more attractive.
Karim E36
08-30-2007, 11:47 AM
With my work, I've had a chance to talk to a lot of BMW enthusiasts about track events. The reality is the great majority of them, are interested or have a positive attitude toward track events.
Whether they are "show-n-shiners" or performance oriented, 2 main objections pop-up regularly: (1) the risk of damaging the car (accidents and added wear and tear) and (2) the cost of the first event.
Since this is basically a sale we are trying to make, I think we need to address those concerns that the typical "customer" has (even if he doesn't mention it).
For concern #1, we need to put the emphasis on the safety of the events, on the minimal number of incidents, the presence of instructors, the specific wear and tear items.
For concern #2, I think the best solution is to have cheaper 1-day events to serve as an introduction to new members. If we can keep the cost around $120-$150 at a track like Sanair, we will be more likely to attract newcomers. The "introduction" events should be held at the beginning of the season.
The other issue is the cost of the helmet. It is difficult to justify the purchase of a $350+ item that you might never use again? (they don't know they will be addicted yet). The possibility to loan or rent helmets would remove a big objection.
Instead of bashing Montreal's enthusiasts, why don't we listen to them to hear what they have to say? They'll give us the answers and we won't have to guess what we are doing right/wrong.
Another approach would be to look at successful clubs and see what they do different.
We have a lot of smart, dedicated and experienced people in our club, I am sure we can find a solution.
Karim.
For concern #1 it is very simple imho.
if someone is interesteed in performance cars, and driving them how they should be driven. There is only ONE safe solution, and that's DEs. From my point of view, you simply CANNOT enjoy safely a sport car (be it a mini or a GT3) on the streets. A DE is the only venue where someone can take his car, and drive it in the higher spectrum of performance for 15-20-25 minute straight in a closed, organized, supervised environment. Period. There are inherent risks in any sport, everyone is free to weight the pros against the cons, but it's either a) never drive your car like it was meant to be driven b) go to a DE.
I completely agree that It should be made very clear the BMWQC puts emphasis on learning, maturity, self-control, security, etc... it's not just about "performance driving". You don't take your car and just beat it.
The problem with the cheaper events like sanair. Is the track is in such poor conditions, one might think the roads are a better alternative.
drive4fun
08-30-2007, 01:39 PM
I like the idea of renting helmets to newcomers who are not yet ready to take the plunge & spend all that $$$ for something they may not like in the end.
I recommend that the club purchases a few, and obliges the new students to pay a non-refundable fee (say $50 ?) & also put down a fully-refundable deposit as a guarantee for the safe return of each helmet at the end of the day. I was at an event recently where 4 of 8 helmets disappeared! For hygenic purposes, a balaklavah could be purchased (cotton is cheaper, so is bulk).
IMHO,
Evie
bmwqc
08-30-2007, 01:48 PM
I like the idea of renting helmets to newcomers who are not yet ready to take the plunge & spend all that $$$ for something they may not like in the end.
I recommend that the club purchases a few, and obliges the new students to pay a non-refundable fee (say $50 ?) & also put down a fully-refundable deposit as a guarantee for the safe return of each helmet at the end of the day. I was at an event recently where 4 of 8 helmets disappeared! For hygenic purposes, a balaklavah could be purchased (cotton is cheaper, so is bulk).
IMHO,
Evie
The cost of purchasing even a small batch of approved helmets can be prohibitively high considering a decent model made by a decent brand costs several hundred bucks each. It has never been club policy to provide helmets, either for loan or for rent. Even the Audi Club rents them out ( when they have them available) at $45.00 per event.
bmwqc
08-30-2007, 01:58 PM
For concern #1 it is very simple imho.
if someone is interesteed in performance cars, and driving them how they should be driven. There is only ONE safe solution, and that's DEs. From my point of view, you simply CANNOT enjoy safely a sport car (be it a mini or a GT3) on the streets. A DE is the only venue where someone can take his car, and drive it in the higher spectrum of performance for 15-20-25 minute straight in a closed, organized, supervised environment. Period. There are inherent risks in any sport, everyone is free to weight the pros against the cons, but it's either a) never drive your car like it was meant to be driven b) go to a DE.
I completely agree that It should be made very clear the BMWQC puts emphasis on learning, maturity, self-control, security, etc... it's not just about "performance driving". You don't take your car and just beat it.
The problem with the cheaper events like sanair. Is the track is in such poor conditions, one might think the roads are a better alternative.
For an inexpensive venue, in terms of price, proximity to the city, and flexibility which we can obtain with Sanair (choice of 2 tracks), it is hard to beat. The track surface may be crappy, but it is not that technically challenging to the beginner, and the tri-oval and infield provide a good way to develop different driving styles.
Nadim 323Ci
08-30-2007, 04:20 PM
The problem is, it's much more expensive to print business cards then the large 8.5 x 5.5" fliers Eric printed for the SCP show. If we want to do something different, we'd need to make a budget for it. I like those small glossy post-cards, but it turns out they're very expensive.
With my work I have contacts at wholesale printers and I can get glossy or nice laminated business cards (or flyers, 4x6", 5x7", ...) for dirt chip. In case you are interested send me a PM.
As for the show, as for SCP, I wouldn't mind displaying my car. I'm 5 minutes away from Centropolis. I just need to know the details before making a commitment ...
As for getting new blood in the club I agree with Karim. We just need to get them 1 time on the track to get them addicted and remove all the fears and the seen risk of buying a helmet and not using it, etc ...
Personnaly I used to be a show'n'shiner. I had that huge bodykit 2 inches from the ground, 19" chrome wheels, ... But I sold most of that stuff to go back to stock or to get parts that actually improved performance. So yes, it's possible to convert show'n'shiners to track junkies :)
I believe Percy was working on a video about "A day at the track". Where we would see from beginning till end how a HPDE event goes. This would be awesome if we could have such a video showing everything : signing the waiver at the gate, the driver's meeting, tech inspection, instructor driving the studen's car, switching drivers, end of session, stuff to do between session, classroom, lunch, the different groups, more sessions, ... This way newcomers would know what to expect.
Silverblades181
08-30-2007, 07:03 PM
I agree that we need to make the club more visible. When I got my first bmw, I started reading the bmw forums but all I found were the american forums and I read about BMW CCA and I thought it would be nice if we had that here..and luckily my friend's dad, Pierre, told me about the club and invited us to Zanetti where I got my first contact with the club and David...who got me to participate to DEs.
The cost of purchasing even a small batch of approved helmets can be prohibitively high considering a decent model made by a decent brand costs several hundred bucks each. It has never been club policy to provide helmets, either for loan or for rent. Even the Audi Club rents them out ( when they have them available) at $45.00 per event.
Pyrotect Sportsman M Series Open Face Racing Helmet
$98.45
http://www.upscaleautomotive.com/p-10727-pyrotect-sportsman-m-series-open-face-racing-helmet-black.aspx
http://www.upscaleautomotive.com/wolthuis.aspx?productid=10727&size=medium
Pyrotect Sportsman M Series Full Face Racing Helmet
$138.45
http://www.upscaleautomotive.com/p-10728-pyrotect-sportsman-m-series-full-face-racing-helmet-white.aspx
http://www.upscaleautomotive.com/wolthuis.aspx?productid=10728&size=medium
The problem is that everyone has a different sized head... having too big or too small an helmet is worthless.
Personaly, I have been wanting an excuse to buy a car helmet since I've been driving. If they would have required a car helmet to play chess, I would have started playing chess.
Pyrotect Sportsman M Series Open Face Racing Helmet
$98.45
http://www.upscaleautomotive.com/p-10727-pyrotect-sportsman-m-series-open-face-racing-helmet-black.aspx
While this is an Snell 2005 rated helmet, it is not a M (motorcylce) helmet; the equivalent automobile helmet (SA) is $148.95. And that's for an open face model; most people choose closed face models for the additional protection they afford. That's more $$$.
The company is in South Carolina so the quoted price is in US Dollars so add some more money to cover the exchange. Then you have to add shipping and handling and, of course, duties and taxes.
By the time you're done, what looks inexpensive might well turn out to be less than a bargain.
blacksheep
08-31-2007, 08:53 AM
While this is an Snell 2005 rated helmet, it is not a M (motorcylce) helmet; the equivalent automobile helmet (SA) is $148.95. And that's for an open face model; most people choose closed face models for the additional protection they afford. That's more $$$.Phil, for a first-time DE participant, wouldn't the $98 M2005 helmet do the job just fine?
The average novice more than likely drives an airbag-equiped car, and although it's been a subject of some debate, an open-face helmet is suspected to be preferable in airbag-equipped cars (something about less than ideal neck angles when the exagerated chin piece of full-face helmets contacts the airbag IIRC).
Also, M rating vs SA rating wouldn't be such a big deal in street cars such as novice drivers typically drive. SA helmets have a flameproof liner and better resistance to multiple impacts with hard objects (i.e.: roll cages). With the fully padded interior of the street cars, SA isn't a big must IMHO
In regard of lending helmets, even if we can get them for free, we are faced with the problem of transporting and storing them. Who would volunteer to attend every single event, bring the helmets to the track, and store them year long?
In the past, we have accepted DOT helmets for one time only, and only for beginners.
While this is an Snell 2005 rated helmet, it is not a M (motorcylce) helmet; the equivalent automobile helmet (SA) is $148.95. And that's for an open face model; most people choose closed face models for the additional protection they afford. That's more $$$.
The company is in South Carolina so the quoted price is in US Dollars so add some more money to cover the exchange. Then you have to add shipping and handling and, of course, duties and taxes.
By the time you're done, what looks inexpensive might well turn out to be less than a bargain.
Yeah you are right, I just read snell
Those are the official pyrotect prices, they can't be much more expensive here in Canada.
bmwqc
08-31-2007, 10:50 AM
In regard of lending helmets, even if we can get them for free, we are faced with the problem of transporting and storing them. Who would volunteer to attend every single event, bring the helmets to the track, and store them year long?
In the past, we have accepted DOT helmets for one time only, and only for beginners.
DOT helmets are sub-standard as far as track use is concerned. They should not be allowed on the track under any circumstance. Cars are getting very much faster, not slower. Safety equipment standards therefore should be raised in conjunction.
sebdavid
09-01-2007, 11:11 PM
I'm just thinking out loud here, but what about attending a couple drag strip events, where we could interest some of the participants who still aren't too deep into the drag thing to maybe give corners a try? What they're doing, as a concept, really isn't that different from what we're doing: trying to use more of your car's potential in a controlled environment. We're just adding G forces coming from the sides and the front to what they're experiencing...
As a bonus, they won't need to buy a new clutch every 2 months...
I'm just thinking out loud here, but what about attending a couple drag strip events, where we could interest some of the participants who still aren't too deep into the drag thing to maybe give corners a try?Again, I agree with these kinds of ideas. The vast majority of "car enthusiasts" are either show-n-shine types or weekend dragracer types. You can either say: "To Hell with them. That's not our crowd. They have no money and they don't care about real driving." Or, you can reach out to them, show them what we do, and hope that some of them might get turned on.
A few years ago, I entered the Evo in a few import-oriented car shows. That's where I got to know Antoine and a few of the guys from the MCCC. Antoine's done a few HPDE's and co-pilots in a local rally-cross series. And 4-5 of those MCCC guys have done events with us. At least 3 of them have become "regulars" at our events: one of them ran our last Tremblant event.
From my experience, reaching out to these guys seems to work better than turning our backs on them.
Emre
Well, guys, the event is coming up soon. If there's any interest at all, let us know ASAP so we can contact the organizers and secure an area for our chapter.
Emre
Silverblades181
09-10-2007, 05:40 PM
I can go.
jacclark
09-11-2007, 12:11 PM
I can go to the show but will be leaving for work at 3:30pm. However, the M3 has taken a beating this summer and is in need of some cosmetic love and attention.
Just an FYI, I think it's good to have an open-mind when it comes to new members as being known for and respected as a source of information on high-performance driving will likely pay dividends in the future.
J
Olivier
09-16-2007, 08:10 PM
Well, it was fun. Fhe kids looooved the powersliding.
And, for once, the cops were working for US today. The 210 Kmh cruise on the highway was a blast.
The biker cops were having mean old time too, showing their skills, zipping through traffic at ~260 Kmh making room for us. For once, it felt like driving in Europe on A15.
Nadim 323Ci
09-17-2007, 11:04 AM
Some nice cars (but where were all the Ferraris? I only saw 3, including one in the parking lot lol). Previous years seemed to filled will all models, in all colors, ...
Here are a few teaser pics Karim and I took. We have a lot more.
http://www.fascinodesign.com/bmw/centropolis/PS-DSCF1377.jpg
http://www.fascinodesign.com/bmw/centropolis/PS-DSCF1395.jpg
http://www.fascinodesign.com/bmw/centropolis/PS-DSCF1409.jpg
I forgot about it...I came back saturday morning from a long drive and it completely went out of my head.
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