new member here! driving school info needed [Archive]

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sharkmanbmw

10-03-2005, 06:13 PM

Hi,
I am new to your site... I have a '94 540i and I just got a '03 330xi. (my 3rd and 4th bimmers, respectively)

I used to do the Monday lapping sessions at St-Eustache with my '95 Jetta VR6 that had been modified, and then stolen :(

At this time I am inquiring about BMW driver training courses... where and when?!

Or is there a better course to take to improve my skills?
I would like something before winter comes to fine tune my driving.
For the most part, I am an excellent driver, but would like to be better.

I believe I am in the right place to get some help with my project, thanks in advance!
Chris

Emre

10-03-2005, 08:46 PM

Hi, Chris.

I am new to your site... I have a '94 540i and I just got a '03 330xi. (my 3rd and 4th bimmers, respectively)Congrats on your new Bimmer! Those are both very nice cars. Welcome to the Club!

I used to do the Monday lapping sessions at St-Eustache with my '95 Jetta VR6 that had been modified, and then stolen :(My condolences...on BOTH counts ;)

At this time I am inquiring about BMW driver training courses... where and when?!We have an events calendar posted on the main site: Driving Schools Link (http://www.bmwquebec.ca/bmw/activities/driving_schools). As you can see, our driving season has come to an end. There are plenty of pics in the gallery to whet your appetitie.

Or is there a better course to take to improve my skills?
I would like something before winter comes to fine tune my driving.
For the most part, I am an excellent driver, but would like to be better.I'm very biased, but I genuinely believe that the BMW Club of Quebec driver's schools are the best out there. That's why I've made such a big commitment to this organization.

Generally speaking, I would say that BMW CCA and BMW CC schools are among the best organized, highest quality, most reasonably priced track events out there. But the Quebec chapter goes out of its way to make our events even more fun, welcoming, and safe. We've never had a student wreck a car at one of our schools. Ask the Ste-Eustache lapping crowd what their "incident" rate is!

I believe I am in the right place to get some help with my project, thanks in advance!You've certainly come to the right place. Our driving season is over. Unfortunately, you've missed some very nice events. However, we ARE planning a winter driving school to be held on the rally circuit at Mecaglisse. It will be in late February IIRC.

We hope you'll join us next summer.

Emre

Emre

10-03-2005, 08:47 PM

You should try to come to the monthly meeting tomorrow night at Zanettis. Details HERE (http://www.bmwquebec.ca/bmw/activities/meetings/(language)). BTW, I just noticed that the event announcement for the last driving school, BAB7 at Tremblant, disappeared from the website. That was a great event!

Emre

Lee

10-03-2005, 09:10 PM

Calabogie not being ready in time, it was obviously a no go. Several of us then went to events organized by other clubs such as the Audi and the Porsche club. The BMWCC membership is accepted by all other BMW chapters in North America and in the world, as well as by Porsche, SAAB and Audi clubs. Next summer, our chapter will have three events at Tremblant, plus hopefully one at Calabogie. Those who attended BAB7 can count on BAB8 co-hosted with the Boston chapter, there will be a huge BMW Fest that will take place at Tremblant with full sponsorship from BMW Canada, not to mention a co-hosted event with Trillium chapter and Ottawa chapter. We expect 2006 to be a great year.

If you want to drive some more, then the White Mountain chapter organizes with the Boston chapter a 4 day event at NHIS (Loudon). You can attend 1,2, 3 or even 4 days if you want. There will also be some BMWCCA Club Racing.

White Mountain event calendar (http://www.wmc-bmwcca.org/event/233)

http://www.nhis.com/assets/Photos/Directions/nhismap.gif

sharkmanbmw

10-03-2005, 09:26 PM

how about a private lesson from one of you guys?

Lee

10-03-2005, 09:34 PM

If you can rent Tremblant by yourself, we will glad to coach you. In St-Eustache, well, no way. No kidding, to learn you need a few days. Being on the tack with other cars is also a good reference.

snowmanmtl

10-04-2005, 12:23 AM

If you really want to get some lessons this year you should get in touch with Keith at Le Circuit. I believe ( not 100% sure) they run some lapping( during the Russell school) with instructors for $ 395 a day. Otherwise, plan a little trip down to VIR for a weekend with the Tarheels BMW chapter. They run a great event. Great organisation, track and the best classroom sessions I have ever been to bar none.

sharkmanbmw

10-04-2005, 12:47 AM

Thanks for the info...
where do I find this Keith guy?
What is "Le Circuit"?!
thanks again.
Chris

snowmanmtl

10-04-2005, 01:17 AM

Lee

10-04-2005, 08:00 AM

This coming weekend is the last Club Tremblant weekend. Friday, Saturday and Friday. Most drivers have a yearly pass. Perhaps you could ask them what is possible?

Andrei

10-04-2005, 10:38 AM

Le circuit = the track at Mont Tremblant
Keith Guy = Keith Blatz, who runs the Russell School at Tremblant 819-425-5700

I believe they are trying to start a lapping club.
For now, I heard that they have lapping while the Russell school has classroom sessions and the Instructors have nothing to do. I would guess that you would get around 3 hrs a day.
I don't have a BMW but, if you would like to come for a couple of laps I will be there Sat., Sun and Monday. Send me a PM.

It is not 3 hours a day. More like close to 2. There is not a full number of flaggers.

I did not really like their passing procedure. No clear indication from the passed car that it is ok to do so. Makes it tricky to pass guys with more power who are slower but don't realise that.
But it is track time even if it is pricey.

blacksheep

10-04-2005, 11:42 AM

guys with more power who are slower but don't realise that.Ohhhh, that's just the worst :mad:

Last time I was at Tremblant some guy in a 944 was holding me up for 3 laps!!! I was riding his bumper the whole time but he was slightly quicker down the straights ... every time he would "wave me by" (usually about 2/3 of the way down the front or back straight) he would stay at full throttle so there was no way I can actually pass him. F0cker.

People who have issues with getting passed by a "lesser car" shouldn't go on the track IMO

Emre

10-04-2005, 12:24 PM

People who have issues with getting passed by a "lesser car" shouldn't go on the track IMOIt seems to me that with the recent explosion in popularity of track days and new clubs springing up every day, you see more and more driver's who don't seem to "get it." I've run into a bunch of people (mostly newcomers to the sport) who are on the track because they bought a fast car and now they want to show all their buddies how "fast" they are.

You see it all over some of the message boards. There are dozens of threads on Evolution message boards along the lines of:

I just did my first track event with the Blah-Blah Club. My mods include X-Y-Z. I've got 360 wheel hp, full coilovers, and R-compounds. I got my driver's license last week for my 16th birthday. I passed a 911, an S4, and not one but TWO Honda S2000's! I was able to "hang" with an M3 for 2/3 of a lap!!11!!! BMW SUXX...EVO ROOLZ!!!11!!1!The whole idea seems to be to count down all your "killz" (street ricer style) to prove to the e-world that your car rocks. Since driving skill doesn't enter the equation...they get really upset when a Tercel is up their ass for 5 laps. How would they explain that to everyone on www.rice-forums.com?

Emre

sharkmanbmw

10-04-2005, 02:33 PM

You see it all over some of the message boards. There are dozens of threads on Evolution message boards along the lines of:
The whole idea seems to be to count down all your "killz" (street ricer style) to prove to the e-world that your car rocks. Since driving skill doesn't enter the equation...they get really upset when a Tercel is up their ass for 5 laps. How would they explain that to everyone on www.rice-forums.com (http://www.rice-forums.com/)?

Emre

LMFAO!!!!!!

FlyinMSP

10-04-2005, 02:41 PM

[...] Ask the Ste-Eustache lapping crowd what their "incident" rate is!

Emre

Lol! Tell me about it!

sharkmanbmw

10-04-2005, 03:17 PM

Emre, Lee, Guys....
thanks for the invite and info.
What I'm after is not exactly track time for flat out lapping...
it is an advanced "general" driver training, here's why...

In January 2003, I was a passenger in a VW Passat that T-Boned a 10 wheel Dump truck full of snow at over 80kph. The driver turned left through our lane to enter a parking lot to dump, cutting right in front of us, he said he did not see the car with headlights and fogs on, after dark, on a lit road. A city bus did witness the accident and stated the truck turned leaving no time for the car to slow down whatsoever.
I broke all the bones in my face and have some memory issues, the driver damaged both knees.
For the last 2 years I have not driven as much as I used to and am less comfortable and confident. The lessons I have learned are in my memory, but I need to relearn them in order to remember and perform like I used to.
I just got my 330xi and am not yet comfortable, so this may be a good time to have some coaching.
FOR THE RECORD... you cannot tell I was "accidented" by looking at me, or by my driving... you have nothing to fear!!!! I just want to be as good and safe as I can.
All I need is to get my left foot back in tune with shifting and (I have been driving my auto 540 for 2 years) get my "groove" back...

any suggestions?
thanks!
Chris

Emre

10-04-2005, 03:58 PM

Hi, Chris.

What I'm after is not exactly track time for flat out lapping...
it is an advanced "general" driver training, here's why...Sounds like you've come to the right place. The BMW Club does not do lapping days. We only run formal "high-performance driving schools." The goal is to make you safer, more aware, and more skilled on the street and in all weather conditions. All students get personalized 1-to-1 instruction in their own cars, plus classroom theory sessions. Everyone runs at their own pace. There is absolutely ZERO tolerance for unsafe behavior on the track. You will not find any macho b.s. here.

In January 2003, I was a passenger in a VW Passat that T-Boned a 10 wheel Dump truck full of snow at over 80kph. The driver turned left through our lane to enter a parking lot to dump, cutting right in front of us, he said he did not see the car with headlights and fogs on, after dark, on a lit road. A city bus did witness the accident and stated the truck turned leaving no time for the car to slow down whatsoever.
I broke all the bones in my face and have some memory issues, the driver damaged both knees.Terribly sorry to hear that. I hope you're doing well. Sadly, I've lost a few friends to motorcycle and car accidents...so I know how easy it is to get hurt out there.

For the last 2 years I have not driven as much as I used to and am less comfortable and confident. The lessons I have learned are in my memory, but I need to relearn them in order to remember and perform like I used to.
I just got my 330xi and am not yet comfortable, so this may be a good time to have some coaching.I have to say I think it's VERY cool that you have the insight to recognize that you're uncomfortable with certain aspects of driving and the balls to ask for help. Most guys have egos too fragile for that! We'd certainly be glad to help in any way we can. The winter driving school might be a great place to start for you.

Again, try coming to the monthly meeting tonight to meet the guys and hang out. You'll get a better idea of what we're about and what we might offer you. I won't be there, but Lee, Andrei, and a few others probably will.

Emre

sharkmanbmw

10-04-2005, 05:40 PM

http://www3.sympatico.ca/sharkmanedw/finalxray.JPG

X ray after my 2nd surgery, circled are the installed brackets and screws, the chin was done in a previous surgery. Eye orbits cracked but did not displace, cheekbone is flattened a bit on the right, sinus caved.

It is amazing how they can fix things, my doctor is a magician.

Lee

10-04-2005, 06:19 PM

blacksheep

10-04-2005, 06:52 PM

Ouch! Those injuries must have been very painful.

Out of curiosity, were you wearing a seat belt and was it correctly positioned? And was the car equipped with driver and passenger airbags?

sharkmanbmw

10-04-2005, 09:21 PM

Ouch! Those injuries must have been very painful.

Out of curiosity, were you wearing a seat belt and was it correctly positioned? And was the car equipped with driver and passenger airbags?

it was jan. 27, so I was wearing a thick, long coat, the seat belt could have been tighter around my waist. My body did move quite a bit more than it could have because of the slack in the belt.
BUT, in this case, with the speed and the truck we hit, the same results would have likely happened, as there were no airbags.
The dash came and hit me in the face as much as I moved towards it, the engine was between our legs.
This is why I have just aquired the 330xi, for the head protection airbaigs, I can't take any more impacts!

as far as the pain goes... I ever been on a morphine pump?!
They crank you full as soon as you get to the hospital, and I was unconscious for a bit, then conscious but unaware of anything, I have no memories of the first hour after, or the accident - at all.
Your own brain also floods your system with info and endorphins, adrenaline... it all counteracts the shock and pain.

For my 2nd surgery, a year after, I got a bunch of killer pills, but found it was tolerable after the first week without, they really have side effects, so I did not like them!

blacksheep

10-04-2005, 10:03 PM

Wow, that's quite an ordeal. Good idea to stop the painkillers as early as possible. Many hard drug addicts became dependent because of morphine given after heavy injuries.

Out of reflex, I've always tightened down the lap belt as tightly as possible and run the shoulder belt under my jacket if I can ... especially in bad weather. I guess that's my "poor man's copy" of the pre-safe system on newer luxury cars.

I guess you will invest in some top-quality winter tires too

sharkmanbmw

10-04-2005, 10:55 PM

Any suggestions?
I have had Toyo, Nokian, Michelin... all good, but this is now a AWD car.....
I want something good at highway speeds as well as snow

blacksheep

10-05-2005, 12:02 AM

I have Nokian RSi on my GF's A4 Quattro. It's a "studless" ice tire (micro-porous surface that wicks away moisture + sipes to let it grip on ice) with a very agressive directional tread pattern.

I have found the combination of those tires + AWD to be practically unstoppable in any conditions. But then again, even with the 19" summer tires I can drive around on our lawn through 8" of wet snow :)

For winter I replace the 235/35-19's with 205/65-15. Makes a big difference in grip (also makes a big difference in the looks, unfortunately :( )

Emre

10-05-2005, 08:50 AM

I have had Toyo, Nokian, Michelin... all good, but this is now a AWD car.....Don't let AWD lull you into a false sense of security. I've owned two AWD cars (a 1990 325iX and my current Evo) and driven a couple of 4WD SUV's (Chevy and Subaru). Without good snow tires, you'll still have lots of trouble. You still need to stop and turn...and AWD by itself doesn't really help you with that.

In fact, one of the worst winter driving experiences I've ever had was my mom's Chevy Blazer with brand new all-seasons. With all that weight and crappy tires, the thing literally would not stop: the ABS would start pulsing like mad...but nothing would actually happen!

I want something good at highway speeds as well as snowThose two things are pretty much at the opposite ends of the spectrum. Winter tires that are designed for good grip at slow speeds in deep snow (like Nokian Hakkapeliittas) have very soft, squishy sidewalls and get VERY sloppy at highway speeds. If you suddenly have to swerve to avoid something at highway speeds, for example, that mushiness becomes a serious liability. In contrast, winter tires that are designed for light snow and sleet (like Michelin Arctic Alpins and Dunlop Graspic DS-1's) will not do as well in really deep snow.

If you spend most of your time on highways and paved Montreal roads (as most of us do), tires like Graspics or Blizzaks are probably your best bet. When you do go out into the country for skiing, you'll just need to slow down a bit.

Emre

blacksheep

10-05-2005, 04:34 PM

one thing I positively HATE about AWD is that I can't use the throttle to gauge available traction at highway speeds.

In a RWD or FWD car in really bad conditions I'll slow down occasionally and give it a good shot of gas to see how easily I can provoke wheelspin. This lets me know how much traction is available. But in an AWD car, this technique is useless.

snowmanmtl

10-07-2005, 02:54 PM

Lapping at Tremblant.

Lee

10-08-2005, 12:20 PM

Phillipe Létourneau est le chef instructeur pour Jim Russel. Il donne aussi les cours théoriques pour certains événements du club BMW. Quand je le verrai la prochaine fois, je lui demanderai les possibilités e lapping. Cependant, vu ls hautes vitesses qu'on peut atteindre, je recommande fortement d'avoir une bonne expérience.

BTW L'an prochain, le club BMW du Québec va y avoir 3 événements. Incluant un BMW East Fest avec le support de BMW CANADA.

snowmanmtl

10-12-2005, 01:53 PM

Did you stop by the track on Monday? Saw a BMW there and a gentleman with a BMW hat and only thought about it after rereading this thread. If it was then sorry I didn't piece it together earlier. I was busy taking those young camera buffs out. Very quiet day on Monday.

sharkmanbmw

10-12-2005, 09:35 PM

No, it wasn't me, but thanks again for the offer!
The weather was not the greatest, did you have a fun time?!

snowmanmtl

10-12-2005, 10:15 PM

Sorry, another BMW guy. Had a great time and never got a drop of rain. Heard it was miserable anywhere south of Tremblant. Guess that's why it was so quiet at Le Club.

NSigounis

10-16-2005, 02:01 PM