Pneus Street use/track use

[yield]

Bonjour tout le monde. Je me demandais pour un newbee comme moi qui veux s"acheter des pneus pour la route et la track. Que devrais-je acheter.

Presentement j"ai des Bridgestone Potenza re040 215/45/ZR17 que j"utilise sur la piste et la rue mais voila qu"ils sont du pour changer.

J"ai dans l"esprit de changer pour du Azenis RT-615 pour la rue mais aimerais savior quoi acheteer pour la piste car je ne veux plus utiliser les meme pneus comme j"ai fait cette annee.

Je veux pas de R compund car je suis trop newbee et je voudrais apprendre et je pense pas que ca soit une bone idee ce type de pneus...

Que me suggerez-vous ?

[blacksheep]

si tu veux des pneus pour apprendre sur la track j'te recommanderais des Kumho 712 (ou les nouveaux SPT) car ils sont très prévisibles, assez bonne traction et excellents sous la pluie. Et aussi très durables. J'ai fait 5 track day sur les miens en poussant quand même assez fort et ils n'ont jamais "chunké" ... en plus j'avais deja 2 étés d'utilisation sur route dessus et je viens juste de les revendre 200$ :D

Avec des 712 ou des SPT t'a pas vraiment besoin d'autres pneus pour faire de la route, ils peuvent facilement faire les 2 si tu surveille ton usure et fais ta rotation régulièrement.

En plus les Kumho ne sont pas "side specific" donc tu peux les faire changer de bord sur les rims pour égaliser l'usure due au camber (si ton auto a trop de camber ou pas assez).

Mais ce que tu propose ça n'a aucun bon sens. Les RT-615 ce sont les pneus les plus près des R-compound disponibles présentement. Donc tes pneus de rue seraient plus collants que tes pneus de track ???? J'ai dû mal comprendre quelque chose.

j'aime bien les RT-615, la seule chose que je déteste c'est qu'ils sont "side specific" (pneu marqué "extérieur / intérieur") donc tun ne peux pas les virer de bord sur les roues pour égaliser le "camber wear" après un bout de temps. Donc les miens sont COMPLÈTEMENT finis à l'intérieur mais encore bons à l'extérieur. C'est un peu du gaspillage.

[bmwqc]

Who has the best price in town for the Falkens?

[Nano]

Who has the best price in town for the Falkens?

noone really...

every tire costs double then in the states

Since I am in the states around once a month, I get my tires shipped there and then bring them back. Declare them at customs and pay half of the prices I get quoted here...

example...

a set of kumho MX (285/40-17 255/40-17) cost me $640 USD (shipped)

here I was quoted more than $1200 CAD + tax

[blacksheep]

Since I am in the states around once a month,are you?

So am I. Always stuff to pick up ... we should team up ;)

[sharkmanbmw]

I have a brand new pair of Toyo Proxes T1R for sale, $200 each, retails for $360 or so!
255/40/17

I just bought a 330xi and don't need them!!!!

Nano, how much duty did you pay when declaring??

[bmwqc]

noone really...

every tire costs double then in the states

Since I am in the states around once a month, I get my tires shipped there and then bring them back. Declare them at customs and pay half of the prices I get quoted here...

example...

a set of kumho MX (285/40-17 255/40-17) cost me $640 USD (shipped)

here I was quoted more than $1200 CAD + tax

If you're going to declare the tires at the border and pay the taxes, why not just have them ship directly to Canada instead? Where is the saving(s)?

[blacksheep]

Where is the saving(s)?When you buy a lot of stuff from the US you get tired pretty quickly of paying more than double for shipping to Canada and then getting raped by UPS with their infamous "brokerage fees".

[bmwqc]

When you buy a lot of stuff from the US you get tired pretty quickly of paying more than double for shipping to Canada and then getting raped by UPS with their infamous "brokerage fees".

That's not what I meant.
Nano said he orders the tires from the USA and have them shipped to a USA address, whereupon he goes there to pick them up and then declare them at Canada Customs and pays the taxes. If that is the case, if you're going to declare them and pay the taxes, then why bother going down to pick them up? Why not have them ship directly to Canada? It's the same amount of taxes payable, maybe a bit more in shipping costs (but greatly offset by the cost of driving down there).

[bmwqc]

raped by UPS with their infamous "brokerage fees".

UPS charges a flat $35.00 brokerage fee for economy and standard. If that is the only surcharge, then I think it's reasonable (depending on the value of the goods).

[Nano]

If you're going to declare the tires at the border and pay the taxes, why not just have them ship directly to Canada instead? Where is the saving(s)?

Tirerack uses UPS

UPS just sucks ass

I will never use UPS ever again since I got rapped 60$ brokerage for an item returned under warranty(value 80$). Their website is very sketchy about hidden brokerage costs(fine print) and they are abusing their power and the north american free trade agreement (they will witthold delivery of goods).

I have huge satisfaction declaring stuff myself.

saving is http://www.montrealracing.com/forums/images/smilies/squintfinger.gif to UPS

[bmwqc]

Tirerack uses UPS

UPS just sucks ass

I will never use UPS ever again since I got rapped 60$ brokerage for an item returned under warranty(value 80$). Their website is very sketchy about hidden brokerage costs(fine print) and they are abusing their power and the north american free trade agreement (they will witthold delivery of goods).

I have huge satisfaction declaring stuff myself.

When you declare an item like a tire at Canada Customs, besides GST & PST, are there any other charges? North American Free Trade Agreement notwithstanding, it seems to me the vast majority of tires (sold to car enthusiasts) are imports made outside of North America.

[Nano]

No, individuals importing non-commercial goods only pay HST/GST (15%)

if the goods originate from a NAFTA country, there are benefits. Right now I don't remember though... went throught that when I bought my wilwood brakes.

[blacksheep]

No, individuals importing non-commercial goods only pay HST/GST (15%)Slight clarification ... that's only true if the goods originate from a NAFTA partner country.

If the goods originate from OUTSIDE nafta you have to pay duty (on most items) unless the person at customs is too lazy to check country of origin.

BTW Henry, I was answering your question correctly. UPS will try to rape you with brokerage charges plus random "customs delays". I don't know where you got that "flat rate $35" from but I've seen far higher fees. And I've had to wait 1+ week for items to "clear customs" using their borkerage.

Plus, even if UPS brokerage was $35 flat fee, ordering 3 items from 3 different places that's $105

[Emre]

I will never use UPS ever again since I got rapped 60$ brokerage for an item returned under warranty(value 80$).All you have to do is call UPS and ask them to HOLD your item in Lachine. If they deliver to your door...don't sign for it. Tell them to take it back to Lachine and hold it for you.

When you go to UPS in person, tell them you refuse to pay the customs brokerage fee. They don't advertize this, but they WILL let you clear customs yourself and then they must waive the fee. All you have to do is take your delivery slip from UPS, drive a couple of blocks to the Customs Canada station in Lachine, pay the duties, then bring the paperwork back to UPS and take delivery.

I learned this lesson when Buschur decided to send me my 3-piece exhaust in 3 separate boxes. I was stuck with $150 in UPS brokerage fees. I made a fuss about it and they told me how to proceed.

Emre

[Nano]

Slight clarification ... that's only true if the goods originate from a NAFTA partner country.

If the goods originate from OUTSIDE nafta you have to pay duty (on most items) unless the person at customs is too lazy to check country of origin.

from what I understand, whatever the origin of the stuff you buy "in the states" as an "Individual for non commercial reasons". You are only charged HST/GST PST. (or they are insanely LAZY as I've done this many times)

You also have the usual tax exemptions depending on your stay outside canada I believe.


All you have to do is call UPS and ask them to HOLD your item in Lachine. If they deliver to your door...don't sign for it. Tell them to take it back to Lachine and hold it for you.

When you go to UPS in person, tell them you refuse to pay the customs brokerage fee. They don't advertize this, but they WILL let you clear customs yourself and then they must waive the fee. All you have to do is take your delivery slip from UPS, drive a couple of blocks to the Customs Canada station in Lachine, pay the duties, then bring the paperwork back to UPS and take delivery.

I learned this lesson when Buschur decided to send me my 3-piece exhaust in 3 separate boxes. I was stuck with $150 in UPS brokerage fees. I made a fuss about it and they told me how to proceed.

Emre

thanks, that's good to know! That's another possibility... just find it more convenient having it shipped at a US address now.

BTW, if your 3 piece exhaust was defective and had to be returned. UPS would have charged you another 150$ of brokerage fees on the replacement :)

I think UPS has been pissing over the bowl for a bit too long... I am seeing more and more people completely frustrated with UPS, both here and in the states, both commercial and individual. Few big shops I dealt with recently completely ditched UPS for FedEx

I also believe UPS is the main reason why people smuggle stuff from states or declare bellow invoice... it's not the taxes they are trying to avoid, it's being ripped of by UPS they are affraid, lol.

[bmwqc]

I don't know where you got that "flat rate $35" from but I've seen far higher fees. And I've had to wait 1+ week for items to "clear customs" using their borkerage.

Plus, even if UPS brokerage was $35 flat fee, ordering 3 items from 3 different places that's $105

The $35.00 is what I recall being charged by UPS (for brokerage) on some electronic items shipped in from the US. But this is going back a few years, perhaps the rates have gone up (or maybe the rate is not flat after all).

Yes, I do agree with you re/UPS. They are a bunch of $(!&$&)CROOKS!

[Turbo_Bimmer]

Based on my recent experiences, *** AVOID UPS BY ALL MEANS ***

I bought some stuff from the states in 2005, including a car :-) , and my only bad experiences came from UPS.

The reason is the fee UPS charges to clear customs is based on the value of the goods. That doesn't make any sense since it's the same paperwork involved for a $20 or a $500 part. Here is the table they use:


FRAIS de DÉDOUANAGE UPS (a part les duty fees et TPS)
$ 0.00 to $ 20.00 $ - Free!1
$ 20.01 to $ 40.00 $ 6.25
$ 40.01 to $ 100.00 $ 17.25
$ 100.01 to $ 200.00 $ 25.50
$ 200.01 to $ 350.00 $ 32.95
$ 350.01 to $ 500.00 $ 36.95
$ 500.01 to $ 750.00 $ 41.95
$ 750.01 to $1,000.00 $ 46.95
$1,000.01 to $1,250.00 $ 51.95
$1,250.01 to $1,600.00 $ 55.15
$1,600.01 to $5,000.00 $ 58.15
$5,000.01 to $6,000.00 $ 62.65
Each additional $1,000.00 $ 4.50
Note: All rates are in Canadian funds. Rates do not include applicable taxes.


Then to that, they add a 'duty fee' and tax over the tax etc. So you will end paying more than what is in the table. This is what happened to me this summer. I called them to have an explanation about the fees they charged me because they were higher than their already high 'fee table' and the girl, was not able to explain to me in details all the separate charges. She told me that they charge tax over the 15% taxe already paid. I asked for a detailed bill for their fees, and they refused. Keep doing business with us, yeah!

If you use USPS/Canada Post, the fees will be $5 flat rate, with FedEx it will be $7 flat rate.

And about the free trade, all goods 'made in USA' are clear of custom fees. All automotive related stuff manufactured outside of USA will have a charge of 6.2% duty fee.
An interresting note; if you buy an E30 in the states, you pay 6.2% since it's a german car and made in Germany, but if you buy a Z3, you don't pay the 6.2%, because it is assembled in North Carolina (if my memory is good).

About the tires, if someone thinks to go to the states and have the tires mounted on their car and drive back without declaring them, well be aware, the canadian customs have the serial numbers of all goods made for the american market and canadian market so they can tell where your TV, tires, etc that you have in your car come from. All tires are supposed to have a serial number, or at least a reference #.

[yield]

si tu veux des pneus pour apprendre sur la track j'te recommanderais des Kumho 712 (ou les nouveaux SPT) car ils sont très prévisibles, assez bonne traction et excellents sous la pluie. Et aussi très durables. J'ai fait 5 track day sur les miens en poussant quand même assez fort et ils n'ont jamais "chunké" ... en plus j'avais deja 2 étés d'utilisation sur route dessus et je viens juste de les revendre 200$ :D

Avec des 712 ou des SPT t'a pas vraiment besoin d'autres pneus pour faire de la route, ils peuvent facilement faire les 2 si tu surveille ton usure et fais ta rotation régulièrement.

En plus les Kumho ne sont pas "side specific" donc tu peux les faire changer de bord sur les rims pour égaliser l'usure due au camber (si ton auto a trop de camber ou pas assez).

Mais ce que tu propose ça n'a aucun bon sens. Les RT-615 ce sont les pneus les plus près des R-compound disponibles présentement. Donc tes pneus de rue seraient plus collants que tes pneus de track ???? J'ai dû mal comprendre quelque chose.

j'aime bien les RT-615, la seule chose que je déteste c'est qu'ils sont "side specific" (pneu marqué "extérieur / intérieur") donc tun ne peux pas les virer de bord sur les roues pour égaliser le "camber wear" après un bout de temps. Donc les miens sont COMPLÈTEMENT finis à l'intérieur mais encore bons à l'extérieur. C'est un peu du gaspillage.


Merci Blacksheep de m'avoir repondu.
Les autres... Peut-on parler du coté technique et non pas de shipping rates ?? ... LOL.. Sans rancunes ! :D

Le fait que j'ai deja des Bridgestone RE040 qui sont tres pres des Azenis RT-615 en terme de performances (enfin je crois) et de prix. Je me demandais quoi faire comme achat si je voulais 4 pneus de track et 4 autres pour la route.

Mon probleme c'est que comme Blacksheep dit... Les pneus qui ont un ''sens specifique'' pour la rotation c'est plus compliqué et c'est mon cas avec mes Bridgestone RE040 qui sont apres 25 000 km completement finis... Je sais que je les avais useés pas mal sur la route mais la piste avait pas aider(peut-être ma conduite poche sur la piste qui les détruits aussi...:o ) et je voulais pas répeter l'expérience d'ou l'intention d'acheter des pneus différents pour la piste et la rue... quitte a prendre des roues plus petite pour la piste...

Pour les Kumho 712 (ou les nouveaux SPT) je les connais pas vraiment mais j'en entend beaucoup parler et étant donné qu'ils sont pas '' SIDE SPÉCIFIC '' je trouve ca un bon compromis niveau usure, mais me demande ce que ca donne comparativement a ce que j'ai présentement...

D'autres conseils ??? Plusieurs têtes valent mieux qu'une !

Merci Blacksheep !
Question de mettre un visage sur le '' nick name '' Blacksheep = Honda blanche ? c'est bien ca ??:o

[blacksheep]

en effet, oui

tes Bridgestone RE040 c'est LOIN d'être l'equivalent des RT-615. En fait tes RE040 c'est à peu près l'équivalent des Kumho 712 et SPT.

Les RT-615 un pneu qui a été conçu spécifiquement pour les classes "street tire" de la SCCA, et en ce moment c'est le "top" dans les vrais "pneus de rue" (sans aller dans les R-compound). Il a une cote d'usure de 200 et dépasse l'adhérence de pneus comme le Bridgestone S-03, BF Goodrich G-Force K/D, Yokohama Advan Neova, etc.

[yield]

Bon bien merci d"avoir éclairer ma chandelle Blacksheep !

Je pense bien que je vais aller avec les SPT qui semblent avoir des commentaires un peux meilleur au niveau du bruit de roulement pour le '' dayly driving '' du moins et sensiblement le meme prix et pas mal moins cher que mes RE040.

Les RT-615 si jài du cash a dépenser de spair je verrai bien la saison prochaine ET CE SI mon apprentissage augmente en fleche.:)

Merci !:D

[Nano]

Slight clarification ... that's only true if the goods originate from a NAFTA partner country.

If the goods originate from OUTSIDE nafta you have to pay duty (on most items) unless the person at customs is too lazy to check country of origin.

Finally picked up the tires yesterday (after 2 month wait). At customs, 5zigen + falken, paid only taxes on them, no duty (still haven't quite figured out this nafta thing)

sorry to hijack thread again :p

[Andre]

Brown is bad.

I've had lousy experiences with them as well and refuse to have anything to do with them anymore.

Back on topic.

I'm really happy with my Toyo T1-s (Older version of the T1-R)
Super predictable and great in the rain and can be swapped from side to side.

The Azenis (RT 215) gets a little squirmy/greasy read -->less confidence inspiring when hot. I was actually experiencing this at Sanair on Sunday and it made going right up to the absolute limit in fast corners tricky. When overheated and pushed really hard, the signals that come back from the tire are ambiguous; it's almost as if you have grip and then you don't and then you do again. Not the greatest of feelings. The new version is apparently better but still suffers a bit from this. There's a good article comparing both R-comps and street tires in GrassRoots motorsports a few months back. I'll see if I can find it.

~a~