$450 + tax for two days in St-Eustache. Yeah sure.

[Lee]

Well, this is what TRAC charges. Mickey Mouse track for the same price as two days in Tremblant. Not to mention they charge tax on education, which I believe is illegal. PCA, BMWCC, BMWCCA charge no tax.

[bmwqc]

But this is for a race school, not a DE?




Well, this is what TRAC charges. Mickey Mouse track for the same price as two days in Tremblant. Not to mention they charge tax on education, which I believe is illegal. PCA, BMWCC, BMWCCA charge no tax.

[Lee]

The content is 95% similar. But anyway, no kind of training/instruction can be taxed.

[Nano]

Mosport Dayze was ~350$... with no tax

edit... NO TAX

[blacksheep]

also the track "maintenance" (haha) laid a nice THICK patch of asphalt right on the 2nd apex of caroussel and everytime I would pass over it I got a nice heavy CRASH through the suspension.

f0ckers.

that "track" is barely worth the $75 it cost me for MFBA day.

[nscirocco]

is there another way to get an ASN/FAQ license? (besides the expensive Jim Russell, Basi, etc.)

-nigel.

[Emre]

Well, this is what TRAC charges. Mickey Mouse track for the same price as two days in Tremblant.Yes, it's expensive. But remember...you get instruction from world famous "real" racecar drivers. Plus you get to watch "real' racecars in action (Echos and VW Beetles!), not club-race amateurs in M3's and such. That's got to be worth a few hundred bucks, right?


Not to mention they charge tax on education, which I believe is illegal. PCA, BMWCC, BMWCCA charge no tax.Since these are for-profit events run by a commercial enterprise, I don't think they fit into the definition of educational expenses, right? I know we are legally considered an educational institution. Our students can actually write-off the entry fees as tuition expenses on their tax returns.

Emre

[Nano]

... Plus you get to watch "real' racecars in action (Echos and VW Beetles...)

there is the acrobatic bonus!

http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/8594/img1938copie9ib.jpg

[blacksheep]

funny picture, but the driver is actually a friend

those kinds of stunts are caused by the organisers of the Echo cup who, for some obscure reason, decided it would be good idea to put 205mm R-compound tires on cars which are taller than they are wide.

too much grip + high centre of gravity = lots of flips

[Nano]

that's the only picture I could find at the moment. I've seen quite a few echos doing this stunt. I find it a little silly, it's a stunt more akin to SUVs than a proper race car. It seems to happen a little too often, it raises an issue of safety and proper ballance of these things.

[nscirocco]

well, i attended this school last weekend and actually really enjoyed it.

~2.5hr theory class during the week
sat morning we did exercises, track was split in sections. we practiced the carousel, dogleg, cones, braking.
sat afternoon we did follow the leader in groups of 4 cars on the full track

sun we did more follow the leader with added passing within the groups.
sun afternoon we did lapping with extra passing sections added each time.
lots of flagging exercises.

learnt some stuff we'd never be alowed to try at a bmw event (not that that's a bad thing .. safety is good). passing (no point bys or anything), passing under braking, rolling race starts, slow moving vehicles on track.

it was divided in such a way that you get 4 instructors evaluating you for the weekend.

i got accredited for a faq regional license so it was worth it.

-nigel.

[snowmanmtl]

Had to do it for the license. It was well run and safe. St. Eustache well, what can you say. I rented an 2006 automatic Yaris for the weekend. Cost $60 in rental and $ 70 in gas. Had 18 km when I picked it up and no tires or brakes when I returned it.

[Andrei]

So would a person with minimal experience be allowed to do the advanced exercises (rolling starts, passing under braking, etc.)?

AFAIK a random person would not be able to do the same with BMWCCA (at the national race school). Almost every single person who races with BMWCCA is good enough to be an instructor at driving schools (most are). Same with PCA.

Nothing wrong with doing those things if the driver is experienced and knows how to drive a car first. I would not be comfortable racing with people who don't have enough experince.

[Emre]

So would a person with minimal experience be allowed to do the advanced exercises (rolling starts, passing under braking, etc.)?The short answer is yes. Trac Racing offers this course for people who want to go from "zero to hero" so to speak. You can be a complete novice and you end up with an FAQ license at the end of the weekend.

They start with exercises you'd see at a novice school (accident avoidance, threshold braking, etc.), move onto some loosely organized lapping (follow the leader, no in-car instruction, etc.), then give you some minimal "race content" (standing starts, passing in corners, etc.), and finally hand you an FAQ license.

So, someone with NO high performance driving experience can spend a couple of days fooling around at a Mickey Mouse track and then grid next to you at Tremblant the next weekend! AFAIK, Trac is the only organization that has a "race school" (if you can call it that) that's specifically geared towards handing out FAQ licenses. So, God only knows how many FAQ drivers have this minimal level of track experience and training.

This is VERY different from the process involved in getting a BMW CCA or PCA club racing license. Personally, I would never put my car out on the track at a regional event in Quebec.

Emre

[Lee]

The big problem that FAQ has (and that Quebec performance drivers has) is that there is no other "organization" that has made a request to train drivers in the perspective of getting a racing license. Jim Russel and Bazi are recognized but are way more expensive (and give much better training) than TRAC. So, they claim they are the best, but in fact they are the only ones. I once registered to TRAC to get my license. I was promised a race school. Yeah sure. I gave so much shit to Trahan for his pretentions of giving racing training.

PCA and BMWCCA/CC have no interest in going to the procedures to be recognized as a racing training program. But obviously, as we already know, racing training is only the last block that leads to racing. It requires several years of practice. From novice to expert racer.

Yes, our chapter has been approched to give such racing training in order to isssue a racing license with FAQ. But we never followed on it. Simply because our philosophy is that it first take a good driver training to become a good racer. BMWCC/CCA already has a racer training program and we do not need to be annoyed by kids lured into thinking they can be Schumacher in one weekend. Just not our crowd.

Anyway, if anyone is interested in fine tuning their training in the perspective of become a licensed racer, it is easy. Just ask, when you register to one of our event, that you want some extra curiculum. Then, you will be assigned an instructor with racing experience. You will be teached passing offline, the art of zen, courtesy and racing strategy.

[Lee]

Personally, I would never put my car out on the track at a regional event in Quebec.

Emre

There are some excellent race drivers in Quebec, doing regionals. The level of abilities and competitiveness is quite high. I have a huge respect for many local drivers. They simply have as many accidents, as in any other organization such as SCCA or EMRA or whatever, simply because rules allow it, and competitiveness is very high. The point is that those drivers have not been "trained" in St-Eustache... as claimed by some, and they had more than just two day training.

[Andre]

I've also done the Trac school and did learn some useful things; seat time is good. This being said, some of the stuff was a little repetitive (maybe useful to some but not all of it was for me) and we did do a few rolling starts at the end of the last day. I was a little apprehensive as 1) people we're tired at this point 2) People that should have been asked to leave we're still buzzing around the track doing stupid things and 3) The ability levels of the other the drivers were still all over the map at this point. I mentionned this to a few instructors but they didn't take much notice. They did say that if I did not do the rolling start I would not be able to apply for my licence... I finally did decide to do it but lined up at the back of the back. I raced karts for 4 years and have done countless rolling starts, I don't need to rub egos or fenders with anyone to feel good about myself and when it came down to it, I did not trust everyone around me. As it turns out, my instincts were correct as two cars did come together during the last "race" (it was actually billed as such). I ran my laps and kept my nose clean.


-andre-
Is it spring yet?

[lapperspeed]

Mmmm. Lots of good and bad things on this thread.

[Andrei]

Thanks for the info, b00b00. It's good to hear those things from actual participants.

[Lee]

I also attended the "race school" and had to share the track with other drivers which had minimal experience. It is scary to be told that the next exercise has to do with passing novice drivers in a corner while trying to save your car from freaked out drivers.