Mosport avec le club Trillium BMW?

[911AS]

Est-ce que certaind d'entres vous irons roulez cet ete a Mosport avec le club BMW de Toronto?

http://www.trillium-bmwclub.ca/site/page.jsp?DriverTraining
Les dates:
April 20-22
June 8-10
Sept 7-9

Y-a-t-il parmis vous des instructeurs qui iront les aider? Je considere y alle mais ca serait vraiment un bonus d'avoir une instruction en francais. Sinon, bien je peut toujours me debrouiller en anglais. :)

Merci.

[Nano]

I was there 2 years ago in september (missed it last year), it was a great event, I was very happy with it. The mosport track is gorgeous, similar to tremblant, but very different at the same time, very fast and with Huge elevation changes in the first section. The september event also had a club race, which is a nice bonus to watch. We were 6-7 from bmw qc. I'm sure french wouldn't be an issue.

I found the trillium guys to be a good bunch. The school was well structured, and even had skidpad and figure-8 exercises.

It's not a track to miss, A-class track... but if I had to chose mosport over tremblant.... tremblant wins.

Here are the pics from 2005
http://bmwquebec.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=254&highlight=mosport

[911AS]

J'y suis allé faire 1 journée de lapping (pour la première fois) l'an passé en octobre. En effet, j'ai beaucoup aimé mon expérience a Mosport. :)

[Lee]

Trillium a un ou deux règlements qui diffèrent des nôtres (flashers => point-by), et ils sont un peu plus loose sur la sécurité (convertibles sans rollbar = okay), mais c'est quand même un bon club sur une bonne piste. Cependant, les 5 ou 6 heures de route sur la 410 sont looooooongues... Difficile de pas rouler à 140-160Km/h

[Phil]

About ten years back, Car & Driver did a ten best list of race track corners. Turn Two at Mosport not only made the list but as I recall was number three. Mosport is one of those "MUST DRIVE" tracks. You will never regret the drive to Bowmanville (although you might regret the HoJos).

Tremblant, Calabogie, and Mosport--the Holy Trinity.

Phil

[johnmdanskin]

About ten years back, Car & Driver did a ten best list of race track corners. Turn Two at Mosport not only made the list but as I recall was number three. Mosport is one of those "MUST DRIVE" tracks. You will never regret the drive to Bowmanville (although you might regret the HoJos).

Tremblant, Calabogie, and Mosport--the Holy Trinity.

Phil

I've never been smart enough to try them, but my smarter friends have discovered that there are a number of B&Bs in the bowmanville area which are both nicer and cheaper than the local hojos. It really doesn't take much to be nicer than the local hojos, but hojos compensates for the lack of ambience by being relatively expensive as well. Stay at hojos to hang out with people, drink beer and walk back to your room in 1 minute. Otherwise, go somewhere else.

[Andre]

The track is epic; I went last spring and had a great time. It was cold, wet and generably miserable but the track more than made up for it. The combination of the Toyo T1-S' and the Acura was the perfect combination for the weekend; so easy to drive in the wet. This being said, those pesky M3s are not the easiest thing to pass in a straight line. :p

I'm thinking about going again this year; a good way to clear the winter cobwebs out.

~andre~

[bmwqc]

The track is epic; I went last spring and had a great time. It was cold, wet and generably miserable but the track more than made up for it. The combination of the Toyo T1-S' and the Acura was the perfect combination for the weekend; so easy to drive in the wet. This being said, those pesky M3s are not the easiest thing to pass in a straight line. :p

I'm thinking about going again this year; a good way to clear the winter cobwebs out.

~andre~

How technical is the track compared to Tremblant?

[Nano]

How technical is the track compared to Tremblant?

I'd say tremblant is more technical. Mosport has less corners too, but a few of them are still quite demanding and require skill (and a good dose of balls) and are quite technical (like corner 2 and the 3-4-5 sequence).

[johnmdanskin]

mosport is definitely faster and scarier than lcmt. 2 and 4 at mosport are both blind like 2 at lcmt, but they are (or can be) 100mph corners, and if you aren't accelerating all the way through, you can lose the rear end, either when it unweights over the crest, or when the front end hooks up in the compression, or of course if you wander into the off-camber (like 7 at lsmt). there are also lots of linked corners. 2-3-4-5 are linked, and 8-9-10 are linked.

[Gregster]

Here is an in car video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGK0UfveIHE

SRT4 touring car in the rain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf9Ue3fFw44

[Emre]

How technical is the track compared to Tremblant?For me, the only really "technical" sections at Mosport are the corner 5 complex and, to a lesser extent, corner 2. Corner 4 isn't really technical unless and until you decide you REALLY want to go fast. At low speeds, it's pretty forgiving. When you decide to enter with no brakes, then you need to be pretty precise. I find LCMT a far more technical circuit.

The big tricks at Mosport are: (1) having the discipline to get on the throttle before cresting the hills in corners 2 and 4; and, (2) knowing when you can turn-in early and apex early. Corners 1 and 8 really respond well to an early, gentle turn-in and a relatively early apex. Corner 3 is a great place to practice your 4-wheel drifting.

Overall, it's a fun track with a very nice flow. It doesn't take very long to fall into a nice rhythm. Corner 2 seems very scary at first...though it gets a lot less scary once you figure out the line and start getting on the power before you crest the hill. Corner 4 doesn't seem particularly scary at first...but it becomes quite frightening when your speed picks up. Corners 3 and 8-10 are just balls-out fun.

Emre

[johnmdanskin]

Corner 4 isn't really technical unless and until you decide you REALLY want to go fast. At low speeds, it's pretty forgiving. When you decide to enter with no brakes, then you need to be pretty precise.
Emre

Maybe I'm going fast through 4 then. I find balancing a sliding car with grip moving from front to back and back again as you unweight and weight again with about one suspension cycle in the middle (in my car) fairly engaging. And corner two will spit you right out if you are more than about 3 feet off, because of the reverse camber offline and because you can go so fast if you hit it right because of the compression when the road flattens out. So I'm voting for mosport as the more technical track at speed.

[Phil]

So I'm voting for mosport as the more technical track at speed.

Perhaps by technical Emre means that LCMT has more different corners. That's probably true but only to a slight degree.

John, by more technical at speed, I think you mean scary or likely to cause damage if you get it wrong. No questions here. Designed a while ago, Mosport has not been brought up to the safety standards that LCMT currently enjoys. There's a higher rate of vehicle damage there at driving schools, especially when its wet, than other tracks and a number of deaths at races over the last 2-3 decades.

Respect, caution, and late apexing are the operative words.

If you think heading into Turn two at LCMT--without braking and with inside wheel lift, heading all the way down through Le Diable and then with heavy, heavy braking into Tic-Tac--is about as bad as it gets, then wait until you try Turn two at Mosport--enter a long, downhill double apex, off-camber corner blind after cresting a hill. See the lovely white walls set back in the grass on the inside and the outside. Gone too fast? Can't hold the line? Sh*******t!!!!!!

If LCMT is the Father and Calabogie is the Son, then Mosport is the Holy Ghost.

Its worth going to all of them.

Phil

[Lee]

...If LCMT is the Father and Calabogie is the Son, then Mosport is the Holy Ghost.
Phil

That's a good one. :D Or could it the Wicked Uncle?

It is true that there is so much grass on each side of the track, followed by tire or cement walls, and not gravel traps in between, that making a mistake can have disastrous effects.

[Emre]

Maybe I'm going fast through 4 then. I find balancing a sliding car with grip moving from front to back and back again as you unweight and weight again with about one suspension cycle in the middle (in my car) fairly engaging.As I said, "corner 4 doesn't seem particularly scary at first...but it becomes quite frightening when your speed picks up." At low speeds, you have some room to play around. When you decide to take it flat out, then you need to be very precise.


And corner two will spit you right out if you are more than about 3 feet off, because of the reverse camber offline and because you can go so fast if you hit it right because of the compression when the road flattens out.Again, "corner 2 seems very scary at first...though it gets a lot less scary once you figure out the line and start getting on the power before you crest the hill." ;) If you're off-line, then corner 2 is a real b1tch. But if you're on the line, it's fairly straightforward (at least in the dry). That doesn't mean it's not scary or that it doesn't demand respect. But it's not particularly hard to figure out what you need to do.


Perhaps by technical Emre means that LCMT has more different corners. That's probably true but only to a slight degree.I guess what I meant is that if you want to be quick at Tremblant, you really need to place your car rather precisely for many of the corners. If you're off by even a little bit, your speed drops dramatically. At Mosport, I find there is less of a speed penalty when you take different lines through many of the corners. You need to be spot on for corner 2. And once your speed picks up, you need to be spot on for corner 4. But you can really play around with almost every other corner without a significant time penalty.

That doesn't mean the stakes aren't high or that the damage won't be terrible if you screw up. I suppose LCMT is more forgiving that way. But to me, a "technical circuit" means you need to place your car precisely if you want to even dream of being quick. LCMT is like that. Mosport, a bit less so IMHO.

Emre

[Andre]

To echo Emre, turns 2-4-and 5 will monopolise most of your attention. When I was there most of my sessions were in the wet and then you aim to drive with two wheels off the concrete. In the dry I was still coming to grips of going quickly through 4 and then deciding to shift or not to shift through 5. As I would carry more and more speed through 4 my approach to 5 would change. (I'm thinking that by not shifting and nailing the line and I'll eventually drive up to the gear). As for more technical or not, I'm not sure. The elevation changes are bigger and more dramatic, there's less margin for error, it may be that Mosport has more subtleties that are not necessarily appreciated at first glance. I find Tremblant the prettier track and Mosport the more foreboding one. It is often said that Mosport is a driver's track, between it and Tremblant, I think I may just prefer it. This being said, with all of 127hp in a car that weighs as much as an e30 the back straight is really, REALLY long.

~a~

[911AS]

En parlant de condition sous la pluie. C'est comment rouler sous la pluie a Mosport? Est-ce que la ligne de course change beaucoup? Est-ce difficile?


When I was there most of my sessions were in the wet and then you aim to drive with two wheels off the concrete.

[johnmdanskin]

...This being said, with all of 127hp in a car that weighs as much as an e30 the back straight is really, REALLY long...


One of the trillium fast guys, Rolf, caught me in his little 325 at the exit of 5. I let him pass me, and then had to wait while he pedalled as fast as he could down the back straight, for about 5 minutes, achieving speeds well over 100kph I'm sure. Finally we got to the corners and he left, not to be seen again. Next time, I'll make him pass me somewhere else.

[Andrei]

One of the trillium fast guys, Rolf, caught me in his little 325 at the exit of 5. I let him pass me, and then had to wait while he pedalled as fast as he could down the back straight, for about 5 minutes, achieving speeds well over 100kph I'm sure. Finally we got to the corners and he left, not to be seen again. Next time, I'll make him pass me somewhere else.

Bah, 325!
That's a muscle car.
I was getting a ride in a naturaly aspirated MR2 at Mosport. We got a passing signal from a 325 after 5. I had to help push the MR2 past it by pressing my hands on the dash.

[johnmdanskin]

Bah, 325!
That's a muscle car.
I was getting a ride in a naturaly aspirated MR2 at Mosport. We got a passing signal from a 325 after 5. I had to help push the MR2 past it by pressing my hands on the dash.
325s are not used to having to lift.

the normally aspirated '91 mr2 does have a 6% better hp to weight ratio than a '57 triumph tr3, which would have made it a bitch'n ride in 1957. Of course, with the extra weight, it's not clear who would be faster on the track.


(130/2657)/(100/2200) ~= 1.06

[Gregster]

Bah, 325!
That's a muscle car.
I was getting a ride in a naturaly aspirated MR2 at Mosport. We got a passing signal from a 325 after 5. I had to help push the MR2 past it by pressing my hands on the dash.

Mk1 or Mk2?

[Andrei]

It was the square looking MR2. So I guess it was the Mk1.

On the plus side the brakes are redundant on that car at Mosport.

[Andre]

En parlant de condition sous la pluie. C'est comment rouler sous la pluie a Mosport? Est-ce que la ligne de course change beaucoup? Est-ce difficile?

Il y'en a d'autres qui pourront élaborer plus que moi mais de ce que j'ai pu constater c'est qu'à l'intérieur de plusieurs virages il y'a des lisières de ciment qui ont vraiment très peu d'adérence dans le mouillé. Conséquemment, on a tendance à prendre une ligne qui mets les deux roues extérieures sur le pavé afin de chevaucher (au moins partiellement) le ciment. Grossomodo, on épouse plus ou moins le contour du virage (décallé de d'une demi-largeur d'auto) au lieu de prendre une ligne de course classique. Ce n'est pas difficile en tant que tel, il suffit de savoir l'emplacement des lisières de ciment et de modifier sa ligne en conséquence. A noter que si on ne tient pas compte de ceci on pourrait se faire une belle frayeur car il y a des endroits (on fond du virage 2 par exemple) ou le ciment pourrait te faire faire des méchantes glissades (ou pire, te faire sortir de piste) assez facilement.

Lors d'une course, ça doit être débile. :D

André

[Andre]

It was the square looking MR2. So I guess it was the Mk1.

On the plus side the brakes are redundant on that car at Mosport.

Was your instructore Lane?

-andre-

[Andrei]

Was your instructore Lane?

-andre-

Possibly. I don't recall his name. It was a red MR2. Nice guy, nice instructor.

[johnmdanskin]

Possibly. I don't recall his name. It was a red MR2. Nice guy, nice instructor.
there is a tall thin ontarionite instructor named peter something who has a red mk1 mr2. he let me drive it at tremblant. he had basically no synchro into 3rd, and I gave up after a couple of grinds and kept it in 4th, which kept me from really putting that massive power down on the road. Braking wasn't a big deal.

[Lee]

Damn. I remember the driver and the red MR2. The guy's not that tall, but his helmet potruded beyond the roof line by about 4 inches. If I remember, he is the instructor who gives the point-bys in all the wrong locations and directions. But hey, his MR2 is easy to pass, so why make a fuss about it? Hopefully, you won't have to lap him twice in the same session... :D BTW he is not entirely at fault as the "other" BAB7 host was telling us that passing any side is just fine :confused:

[Andre]

Damn. I remember the driver and the red MR2. The guy's not that tall, but his helmet potruded beyond the roof line by about 4 inches. If I remember, he is the instructor who gives the point-bys in all the wrong locations and directions. But hey, his MR2 is easy to pass, so why make a fuss about it? Hopefully, you won't have to lap him twice in the same session... :D BTW he is not entirely at fault as the "other" BAB7 host was telling us that passing any side is just fine :confused:

He's my uncle, (and yes he's a really nice guy John), if I recall correctly, 1) Trillium and QC chapter don't always agree on point bys (on either how or where they are done.) 2) Having been out in many of the instructor sessions as a passenger, it's a bit of a zoo out there.

-andre-