Calabogie 2-3 juin 2007 / June 2-3, 2007

[SilverViper]

Le Club Viper Québec invite les membres du Club BMW à Calabogie la fin de semaine du 2-3 juin 2007.

Le Club Viper Québec a réservé la piste de Calabogie la fin de semaine du 2-3 juin 2007. Nous attendons 80 participants pour l'événement (d'ailleurs, l'événement sera limité à 80 participants seulement). Le coût est de 499$ (taxes incluses) pour les deux jours. Pour Calabogie, le prix est compétitif. Le prix inclut le BBQ et les boissons pendant le week-end. Vous serez bien reçus!!

L'événement est à but NON LUCRATIF. Le Club Viper est un club "d'enthousiastes" tout comme le Club BMW.

Après consultation avec les membres du Club Viper, nous avons exclu la formule "HPDE". Nous n'avons donc pas besoin d'instructeurs pour l'événement. Il y aura bien un groupe de débutants (surtout des membres du Club Viper) mais ils seront encadrés par un petit groupe d'instructeurs. Ainsi, nous vous demandons un minimum d'expérience de piste pour participer à l'événement.

Voici le formulaire:

http://www.viperacr.com/events/2007/reg_french.pdf

Vous devez envoyer votre chèque à Andras Kovacs, le président du Club Viper. Inscrivez "Club BMW" sur le formulaire d'inscription.

English version will follow shortly.

Merci!

[Lee]

Hey Jean-Guillaume. Le Club Viper semble être un gros club, et je suis sûr que les membres Américains seront intéressés et que vous bookerez facilement, avec l'aide des autres clubs locaux. Selon l'annonce de MontréalRacing, il semblerait que ce soit devenu un événement TLC - "TLC à Calabogie 2 et 3 Juin." Quelle sont les nouvelles implication de cette co-organisation? Aurais-tu pû co-organiser un événement de lapping avec d'utres clubs (comme CADL, club Subaru, par exemple?

"Le week-end a Calabogie est un co-évenement avec le Club Viper du Quebec organiser par le TLC. Tout se déroulera de la meme facon qu'une journée de lapping au TLC."

Lee

[SpeedTT]

"Le week-end a Calabogie est un co-évenement avec le Club Viper du Quebec organiser par le TLC. Tout se déroulera de la meme facon qu'une journée de lapping au TLC."

Lee
Merci Lee pour les précisions

[SilverViper]

En fait, on a décidé d'inviter le Club TLC parce que le Club Viper Québec n'a pas assez de membres pour que l'événement soit financièrement viable. Pas plus de 20 membres du Club Viper Québec sont attendus. Bien sûr, le Club Viper Ontario et New England va nous fournir quelques membres.

J'aimerais préciser que le Club Viper Québec reste la seule organisation responsable de l'événement que ce soit au niveau financier ou légal. Nous sommes 4 membres du Club Viper à avoir fourni le dépôt de location de la piste.

Ceci étant dit, j'offre la chance à des membres du Club BMW de venir rouler avec nous. C'est moi qui invite!!

[Lee]

Salut Jean-Guillaume. Je suis sûr que cet événement sera une réussite. Merci beaucoup pour l'invitation. :p

[kompressorz]

Salut Jean Guillaume, est-ce qu'on peut s'inscrire directement chez Trac ?

[SilverViper]

Salut Jean Guillaume, est-ce qu'on peut s'inscrire directement chez Trac ?

Les inscriptions vont toutes chez le directeur du Club Viper Québec au bout de la ligne. Mais si tu es membre TLC, Francis peut s'occuper de prendre ton inscription. Il va ensuite nous la transmettre.

[SilverViper]

Autre précision:

Lee se demande pourquoi nous n'avons pas choisi un autre club automobile pour "co-hoster" l'événement. La réponse est simple: DaimlerChrysler sera un commanditaire officiel de notre événement. Vous comprendrez que c'est un peu délicat de faire un événement en collaboration avec le Club Subaru par exemple. Le Club TLC ne posait pas de problème à ce niveau parce que c'est un club de lapping qui n'est pas associé à une marque en particulier. Mais comme je mentionnais, le Club Viper Québec demeure la seule organisation en charge de l'événement au niveau financier et légal.

[Lee]

Wow. C'est cool que vous ayez pû avoir la reconnaissance et le support de DaimlerChrysler pour un tel événement. Félicitation pour cet "achievement". Je comprend le gros travail que cela a certainement nécessité. Chapeau!!! Cela vous permettra peut-être de demander à DaimlerChrysler d'envoyer une invitation aux proprios de Viper (en utilisant leur mailing list) et de faire un événement commémoratif pour l'Est du Canada.

[SilverViper]

Wow. C'est cool que vous ayez pû avoir la reconnaissance et le support de DaimlerChrysler pour un tel événement. Félicitation pour cet "achievement". Je comprend le gros travail que cela a certainement nécessité. Chapeau!!! Cela vous permettra peut-être de demander à DaimlerChrysler d'envoyer une invitation aux proprios de Viper (en utilisant leur mailing list) et de faire un événement commémoratif pour l'Est du Canada.

En fait, DaimlerChrysler a toujours supporté les événements d'envergure organisés par le Viper Club of America. Notamment, les Viper Owners Invitationals organisés une fois aux deux ans.

Pour notre événement, il est possible que DaimlerChrysler nous réserve des surprises.

[johnmdanskin]

One of the lines in the car-tech section says:

"seatbealts fully functional and not modified, using factory mounting points."

my 6 point harness doesn't meet this standard. Did they mean to exclude harnesses?

the event looks like a lot of fun, and I am very much in favor of driving events held on the weekend.

[SilverViper]

One of the lines in the car-tech section says:

"seatbealts fully functional and not modified, using factory mounting points."

my 6 point harness doesn't meet this standard. Did they mean to exclude harnesses?

the event looks like a lot of fun, and I am very much in favor of driving events held on the weekend.

Harnesses are accepted if your car is equiped with a rollbar or a rollcage.

[johnmdanskin]

thank you JG!
I'll probably send in that registration tonight after I finish pretending to work.
I haven't booked anything in June yet, and there aren't enough Dodges at the bmw events. I wonder if people would mistake my car for a viper if I put little snakes on it?

For any other language challenged people, the registration in english:

http://www.viperacr.com/events/2007/reg_english.pdf

[Lee]

Hey John. You will be passing those Vipers so fast, that they won't have time to even realize what type of car passed them... :rolleyes:

Kidding apart. I think it is a great opportunity to drive that wonderfull new track. And as we have nothing organized in early June, let's jump on the Viper Club's invitation.

[SilverViper]

Just to be clear, if your car is usually accepted at BMW Club events, you will be fine for our own event. If you have any questions, do not hesitate to ask.

Thanks

[SilverViper]

Other points of importance:

We will have:

-flaggers
-ambulance
-Doctor on duty
-full insurance coverage
-tow truck
-marshalls
-some qualified instructors from TLC

Safety will be our first priority!!!

[SilverViper]

Last thing: there is NO membership fee payable to the Viper Club.

[Phil]

Last thing: there is NO membership fee payable to the Viper Club.

Will there be any in-car instruction or is it just a lapping event?

What about novice and intermediate drivers?

I'd consider coming to help as an instructor if you were interested.

Phil

[Lee]

Hi Phil.

Jean-Guillaume asked me to help as an instructor and think that perhaps he will need more help. From what I understood, it will be most likely a lapping event, but some drivers will have instructors by their side. Perhaps Jean-Guillaume can chime in. Maybe some registrants from the BMW club may prefer instructors to go along with the club's philosophy. But hey, different house, different rules.

[Emre]

And as we have nothing organized in early June, let's jump on the Viper Club's invitation.Actually, we may have our own driving school at Calabogie in June. Our partners from ACNA/NEQ have a weekend date that they've invited us to share. Just a matter of ironing out the financials.

Emre

[Emre]

I'd consider coming to help as an instructor if you were interested.I'll have to double-check that I'm free that weekend, but I might be interested as well.

Emre

[SilverViper]

At this stage, we don't need instructors. But thanks for your kind offer! We will let you know if needs be.

Although a small group of TLC instructors will be there to help the beginners, this won't be a HPDE event per se. For intermediate and advanced participants, this will be a "lapping" event where safety will be our first priority. We expect to offer close to 5 hours of lapping per driver for the whole week-end.

[Lee]

Actually, we may have our own driving school at Calabogie in June. Our partners from ACNA/NEQ have a weekend date that they've invited us to share. Just a matter of ironing out the financials.

Emre

So, let's go twice. It'll be double the fun.
Nonetheless I do not see any NEQ event at Calabogie on their website.
http://www.neqclub.org/index.php?option=com_events&Itemid=46

Hopefully it will not be too close to TrackOut on June 16th

[pat rx7]

Tres bien jean-guillaume............donc max 80 voitures 40 viper et autres voitures du tlc et tous le mondes paie $499 pour deux jours donc cela fait changement car souvent il y en a qui roule et ne paie pas.............donc il y auras pas beaucoups instructeurs du club bmw............:eek:

[Lee]

Dis-donc Patrice, si les événements du club ne t'intéressent pas, tu n'es pas obligé d'y assister. On voudrait surtout pas te forcer... Tu répètes toujours la même chanson sur ce site et sur MR. Si la formule n'est pas à goût, tu peux aimplement ne pas t'inscrire aux événements...

[pat rx7]

J ai le droit de dire ce qui me plait ou non.....et c est pas toi qui va me dire quoi faire dac................si le chapeau te fait met le ;) et en passant je ne suis pas souvent comme toi sur le site MR par contre toi oui tres souvent..........................

[blaze_125]

donc il y auras pas beaucoups instructeurs du club bmw............:eek:

Les instructeurs du Club passent leur journées dans les voitures des élèves, avec un élève dans leur voiture, ou avec un spectateur dans leur voiture. Je crois qu'il est honorable qu'une partie de nos frais soit dédié à payer l'événement d'un instructeur.

Edit...
I guess I'll translate to avoid any confusion:

The club instructors spend their days in student's cars, with a student or a spectator in their own car. I think it's honorable to see part of my entry fee being used to pay the instructors event fees.

[Emre]

Les instructeurs du Club passent leur journées dans les voitures des élèves, avec un élève dans leur voiture, ou avec un spectateur dans leur voiture. Je crois qu'il est honorable qu'une partie de nos frais soit dédié à payer l'événement d'un instructeur.If I get invited to an event as an instructor, that means I'm there to work ... not to play. I do not expect to be paid for my work: I'm more than happy to do it as a volunteer. But I don't like the idea of having to pay to work.

But this Viper thing is a lapping event and the only instructors there are "TLC" instructors. They just jump in the car for a session or two and make sure you're not a total jackass. They're not really working that they would at a real high-performance driving school. The instructors are basically there to lap and have fun. They just volunteer to hop into another guy's car for a few minutes a day.

In that case, it makes sense for them to pay.

Emre

[blaze_125]

If I get invited to an event as an instructor, that means I'm there to work ... not to play. I do not expect to be paid for my work: I'm more than happy to do it as a volunteer. But I don't like the idea of having to pay to work.

Hopefuly the french to english translation didn't screw things up. I was actually saying I'm in favor of the current practices.

[Emre]

Hopefuly the french to english translation didn't screw things up. I was actually saying I'm in favor of the current practices.No, I understood what you meant. I was agreeing with you :)

I was just saying that this Viper thing sounds like a lapping day. So they don't use the same rules that apply to a high-performance driving school.

Emre

[Dave]

But this Viper thing is a lapping event and the only instructors there are "TLC" instructors. They just jump in the car for a session or two and make sure you're not a total jackass. They're not really working that they would at a real high-performance driving school. The instructors are basically there to lap and have fun. They just volunteer to hop into another guy's car for a few minutes a day.

Emre

Excuse me????

[blacksheep]

Excuse me????silverviper said there would be no instructors needed for Calabogie so if TLC instructors show up it probably won't be for extensive lessons, just a quick checkout ride.

Unless we misunderstood. Because if this is a TLC event and not a Viper Club event, it technically shouldn't be posted here

[bmwqc]

silverviper said there would be no instructors needed for Calabogie so if TLC instructors show up it probably won't be for extensive lessons, just a quick checkout ride.

Unless we misunderstood. Because if this is a TLC event and not a Viper Club event, it technically shouldn't be posted here

It seems each of the two clubs is advertising this as their own event (to the exclusion of the other)

[blacksheep]

yeah, it's really confusing. But I'm pretty sure it's a Viper Club event ... right?

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q252/Francis_Marleau/TLC-1.jpg

[Emre]

Excuse me????My French isn't the best, so perhaps I misunderstood. This is being advertised as a lapping event...not a high-performance driving school. We've been told that instructors are not needed, though a few TLC instructors will be on hand. To me that means everyone pays to drive the track and have fun (instructors included). That's why I'm saying you won't be expected to work the way you would at one of your driving schools.

If this is not the case, then some clarification would be nice. Is this a lapping event or an HPDE? Is it sponsored by a non-profit car club (e.g., Viper Club) or a for-profit tuning shop (e.g., Trac Racing)? This has not yet been made clear. Hence the many questions.

Emre

[Lee]

yeah, it's really confusing. But I'm pretty sure it's a Viper Club event ... right?

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q252/Francis_Marleau/TLC-1.jpg

Yes Blacksheep. It is indeed a Viper Club event, with the help from TLC. It is a bit confusing because TLC has put a lot of emphasis on themself in this ad. Big TLC logo but no Viper Club logo. The whole social side seems pretty well organized by the Viper Club, with even a strong support and presence from DaimlerChrysler. The post on MR is confusing about who's event it is. Which prompted my first question to SilverViper's announcement to help clarify things.

As a sidenote. In regard of Patrice Grégoire's brilliant remarks, in 2006, we started working with Phil and Mike as instructors. Both very good and competent fellows who also are instructors with PCA and TLC. They were assigned two students, just like every other instructor. One of the first thing they told me at the end of the day was about how much more work it is from what they were used to. That is because BMW Club events have always been about teaching students as much as they can, and this requires constant dedication from instructors, not just casual joy rides as some may imply. This is really hard work. So, we either pay instructors, or we get them free tracktime. The second option is more viable for the club and makes events cheaper for students. I wonder how students would feel to be charged an extra $500 per day for the instructor. BTW I do not know any student who would complain about allowing instructors free track time in exchange of work. Those who do not agree with this philosophy should simply not sign in. We will of course miss them.

[SilverViper]

Just to clarify:

1-This event is a Viper Club Event. A not-for-profit organization.
2- 4 members of the Viper Club invested their own money to finance the deposit (including myself)
3-we (the Viper Club) invited the TLC to join us for this event.
4- TLC is a not-for-profit lapping club.
5- Trac Racing will not get any benefit, directly or indirectly, from this event.
6-Some TLC instructors will be there to help beginners.
7- the event will be a lapping event, not a HPDE per se.

Thanks for your interest.

[SilverViper]

Other thing: since the TLC will provide over 30 participants, they can market the event as they wish. But it does not change the fact that it is a Viper Club event.

[pat rx7]

je croit que `tlc` pas track racing aurais du indique que c est une colaboration avec le club viper mais il ne la pas fait .........:confused:

[johnmdanskin]

at my first event, my instructor had 4 students: novice (me), beginner, intermediate, advanced. He looked a little frazzled at the end of the weekend. Boston starts to learn that if you don't have enough instructors this time, you'll have fewer instructors next time.

the most convincing evidence that the instructors are working is that some percentage of them are too carsick to take their own track time, especially when it is hot.

[Phil]

Do these folks have websites?

[Lee]

at my first event, my instructor had 4 students: novice (me), beginner, intermediate, advanced. He looked a little frazzled at the end of the weekend. Boston starts to learn that if you don't have enough instructors this time, you'll have fewer instructors next time.

the most convincing evidence that the instructors are working is that some percentage of them are too carsick to take their own track time, especially when it is hot.

Depending on assigments or how the sequence is done, it very often happens that instructors do not do more than two (out of four) of their own track sessions. Sometimes, a student requires some technical explaination that must be done right after the on-track session. So, the instructor must give up its own session. Some cars have lousy seats, which can break an instructor's back, and sometimes one student takes as much energy as three of them... The instructors who step-in only for the free track time do not stay long. They soon realize that it is nowhere near free. Instructing is extremely rewarding, if you are looking for the "right" goals.


Do these folks have websites?

TLC doesn't have a website of its own. Instead, they sponsor (give $$$) to an existing car forum (www.montrealracing.com) in the "lapping-track" section and give advices about how to "lap or die".

[Dave]

...That's why I'm saying you won't be expected to work the way you would at one of your driving schools.Emre

My bad Emre, I tought you implied this was generally the way things were done by TLC.

Thus my question to get explanations.

Sensitive trigger I guess.... left over from past history :rolleyes: .

My apology.:cool:

[SilverViper]

Depending on assigments or how the sequence is done, it very often happens that instructors do not do more than two (out of four) of their own track sessions. Sometimes, a student requires some technical explaination that must be done right after the on-track session. So, the instructor must give up its own session. Some cars have lousy seats, which can break an instructor's back, and sometimes one student takes as much energy as three of them... The instructors who step-in only for the free track time do not stay long. They soon realize that it is nowhere near free. Instructing is extremely rewarding, if you are looking for the "right" goals.



TLC doesn't have a website of its own. Instead, they sponsor (give $$$) to an existing car forum (www.montrealracing.com (http://www.montrealracing.com)) in the "lapping-track" section and give advices about how to "lap or die".


Lee, Trac Racing and TLC are two different entities. TLC is a not-for-profit lapping club.

Lee, you've got mail!

[SilverViper]

Francis from TLC will clarify on the MontrealRacing website that it is a Viper Club event. I am not a liar.

Sorry for the confusion.

[miata_greg]

Je crois bien que la philosophie d'un bon instructeur avertie est bien sure de faire la promotion et aussi de donner aux pilots toute les connaissances requise pour améliorer ces connaissance et sa conduite sur circuit fermé.

Donc si les pilots et instructeurs de TLC vont participer a cet événement, et ce au même titre et même condition de tous, j'ose croire que plusieurs pilots instructeurs chevronner et avec beaucoup d'expérience du club BMW:BMW: vont faire de même et que nous pauvres pilot avec peu d'expérience pourrons profiter de l'expertise et l'expérience de ces conducteur, pilote instructeur de la même façon que les instructeurs de TLC vont offrir a cet événement du 2 et 3 juins 2007.;)

Je ne peu qu'admirer les efforts et la disponibilité que ces instructeurs nous offre de façon volontaire et gratuite en plus.....Car à chaque événement que j'ai eu la chance de participer avec TLC l’instructeur était toujours disponible pour corriger nos petits défauts. :cool::cool::cool:

[SilverViper]

http://www.viperacr.com/events/2007/poster_16_small.jpg

[Lee]

Francis from TLC will clarify on the MontrealRacing website that it is a Viper Club event. I am not a liar.

Sorry for the confusion.

Hi Silver. Don't worry. Nobody even thought of you as being a liar. It never crossed our mind. Quite to the contrary, you have always honestly been promoting a Viper Club event with all the right attitude. The confusion comes from the announcement from Trac (or TLC) that it is a joint event, with the emphasis toward Trac (or TLC). It is a bit like inviting friends to a party who then take over your own house.

Miatagreg. You are entirely right to mention that TLC instructors are competent and dedicated. Committed guys like Dave are worth gold and I wish that one day he could come instruct with the BMW club. But let's not confuse apples with oranges. As Carl keeps on mentioning, TLC is a lapping club - he even says the "only true lapping club in Quebec", not an HPDE/school. Goals and "modus operandi" are different.

[johnmdanskin]

I just dropped my check irrevocably into the mailbox, so I'll encourage any of my bmw forum friends, which I hope is all of you, to also come to this event so that I won't be too lonely. With my presence, you will have a chance to pass at least one car which Jeremy might classify as well made. Possibly, we will have chased the rest of the gremlins away, and it will actually be as reliable as one of the Dodge Club cars. Only time will tell if the pending exorcism will evict the evil spirits. I do know that my X5 will have spares packed tighter than the middle seat on a cross country non-stop for every event this year.

[SilverViper]

Hi Silver. Don't worry. Nobody even thought of you as being a liar. It never crossed our mind. Quite to the contrary, you have always honestly been promoting a Viper Club event with all the right attitude. The confusion comes from the announcement from Trac (or TLC) that it is a joint event, with the emphasis toward Trac (or TLC). It is a bit like inviting friends to a party who then take over your own house.

Miatagreg. You are entirely right to mention that TLC instructors are competent and dedicated. Committed guys like Dave are worth gold. But let's not confuse apples with oranges. As Carl keeps on mentioning, TLC is a lapping club - he even says the "only true lapping club in Quebec", not an HPDE/school. Goals and "modus operandi" are different.

Well Lee, logistically, TLC will help us organizing the event. The Viper Club, as a young Club, does not have the knowledge nor the ability to manage such a big event. TLC managers kindly offered their help. This is a joint event in a sense that almost half the participants will be TLC members and TLC will help us with the logistic. However, TLC (nor Trac Racing) will not get any financial benefits from this event since it is a not-for-profit organization.


That being said, as I mentioned, all BMW Club members (with track experience) are welcome to join us.

Thanks

[SilverViper]

I just dropped my check irrevocably into the mailbox, so I'll encourage any of my bmw forum friends, which I hope is all of you, to also come to this event so that I won't be too lonely. With my presence, you will have a chance to pass at least one car which Jeremy might classify as well made. Possibly, we will have chased the rest of the gremlins away, and it will actually be as reliable as one of the Dodge Club cars. Only time will tell if the pending exorcism will evict the evil spirits. I do know that my X5 will have spares packed tighter than the middle seat on a cross country non-stop for every event this year.

Thanks for your confidence!! :)

[Gregster]

I just dropped my check irrevocably into the mailbox, so I'll encourage any of my bmw forum friends, which I hope is all of you, to also come to this event so that I won't be too lonely. With my presence, you will have a chance to pass at least one car which Jeremy might classify as well made. Possibly, we will have chased the rest of the gremlins away, and it will actually be as reliable as one of the Dodge Club cars. Only time will tell if the pending exorcism will evict the evil spirits. I do know that my X5 will have spares packed tighter than the middle seat on a cross country non-stop for every event this year.

Calabogie is only 2 hours from my place ill sign up as well since I know practically all the TLC guys and i'm a member. One of my goals this year was to drive calabogie as part of my summer track time. MCO might be planning another track weekend as well

There are hotels around with decent rates if not you can stay in ottawa which is about an hour away.

I take it you are going to tow the Mcoupe up?

[Lee]

Hey Greg. How is the e36 project coming? Will you bring the beast to Calabogie?

John. I will be there too. I don't mind paying to play ;) .

[johnmdanskin]

I take it you are going to tow the Mcoupe up?

Yes, I'll be towing. My power steering hose blew twice in the last year, both times far far far from my house, and that part is impossible to get on short notice. Twice Sebastien modified an e36 hose to fit my car, the 2nd time the e36 hose was off of his car. Both times there was a long period of not being sure how I was going to get home and how my car was going to get home. I've had enough of that feeling. I'm towing AND carrying lots of spares. This way I can also bring the cooler and the BBQ and the tent and the chairs and even (fat chance) the SO.

I'll be looking forward to seeing you and lee. I'm not sure about you, but I'll be expecting to see Lee first in my rear view mirror and then out the front window driving a car which I should be able to outrun in reverse. At least I'll have a great view for a little while.

-john

[Gregster]

Yes, I'll be towing. My power steering hose blew twice in the last year, both times far far far from my house, and that part is impossible to get on short notice. Twice Sebastien modified an e36 hose to fit my car, the 2nd time the e36 hose was off of his car. Both times there was a long period of not being sure how I was going to get home and how my car was going to get home. I've had enough of that feeling. I'm towing AND carrying lots of spares. This way I can also bring the cooler and the BBQ and the tent and the chairs and even (fat chance) the SO.

I'll be looking forward to seeing you and lee. I'm not sure about you, but I'll be expecting to see Lee first in my rear view mirror and then out the front window driving a car which I should be able to outrun in reverse. At least I'll have a great view for a little while.

-john

Youll be getting tierd of lapping me :p