View Full Version : Motul 300v
Anyone using this oil here?
Is this oil REALLY as good as people claim?
I hear so much raving about this oil... but price is insane, basically it comes down to 120$ + tax per 6L oil change (instead of 40$-60$ for other brands top level synths)... I honestly find the price a little rediculous and doubt it's worth the money, even for lapping, dragstrip and hard driving on the streets...
am I wrong?
bmwqc
07-07-2005, 02:12 PM
The Motul 300V is a racing oil. This type of oil does not have the protective additives found in regular synthetic oil made for street use. It's a lot of money if you have you have to change your oil after each event/race.
Andrei
07-07-2005, 02:44 PM
Don't bother. Use synthetics intended for street cars as that is what you have.
Race oils are meant for engines that get rebuilt every 50 hours of use.
The Motul 300V is a racing oil. This type of oil does not have the protective additives found in regular synthetic oil made for street use. It's a lot of money if you have you have to change your oil after each event/race.
It's true, it's not API certified.
I seem to recall that motul claims it has the proper amount of detergents and 's good for street use though. I've been told by people who use it(race it) that it can withstand 10000 kms of race conditions. You don't flush it every race... so it's actually cost efficient past a certain point. But I don't know if 10K intervals means you need a rebuild after that... lol
I think I will stick with Mobil1 Extended performance and more frequent oil changes.
I hear so much raving about this oil... but price is insane, basically it comes down to 120$ + tax per 6L oil change (instead of 40$-60$ for other brands top level synths)... I honestly find the price a little rediculous and doubt it's worth the money, even for lapping, dragstrip and hard driving on the streets...There's no doubt that Motul's 300V and ester-base 5100 are top-quality racing oils. However, they are very expensive (as you have noticed ;)) and not all that easy to get locally.
I think I will stick with Mobil 1 Extended performance and more frequent oil changes.You may not be aware, but Torco Canada (http://www.torco.autovendu.com/index.htm?) has just signed on as "Platinum Sponsors" of the BMW Club of Quebec for the 2005-2006 year. They are available from a local distributor in Lachine. Quebec Chapter members will be offered a 10% discount off the prices listed on the Torco Canada (http://www.torco.autovendu.com/index.htm?) website.
In other words, Club members will be able to buy Torco SR-1 semi-synthetic motor oil for around $10 CDN per liter. The ester-base SR-5 racing oil will run around $18 CDN per liter. The prices of SR-1 and SR-5 are very fair and the quality is very high (certainly higher than Mobil 1 or any of the other commonly available synthetic blends). You'll have the added convenience of being able to buy direct from the distributor without any hassle. BTW, you can also get tranny and diff lube.
Emre
Hi Emre.
Isn't the Motul ester-based oil $15 instead of Torco's $18? Buying semi-synthetic oil at $10 a liter is not a viable option as Mobil One is less than $8. Perhaps Torco can give us better price.
Isn't the Motul ester-based oil $15 instead of Torco's $18? Buying semi-synthetic oil at $10 a liter is not a viable option as Mobil One is less than $8. Perhaps Torco can give us better price.I'm probably off on the prices as I just hammered them out off the top of my head. You'll have to check the website to see the actual list prices. We're going to be offered even lower distributor prices plus a significant discount. I remember the prices being less than comparable products from Motul and the other Euro brands. And we can probably do even better but we'll need to sit down and flesh out the details.
It would help to get a price-list for, say, Redline, Motul, and Lubro-Moly lubricants to see what would be a good ball-park for Club members.
Emre
flukester
07-08-2005, 12:17 AM
Just for the record, I've been using the 300v as of my very last oil change. I usually use Motul Eco-nergy (8100) synth oil. Last time they didn't have the 8100 in stock so they gave me the 300v at the same price than the 8100! I don't plan on leaving it for long in the engine and will either be back to my regular 8100 or switch to the Torco products, depending on a few details such as the price :) The 8100 comes in a nice bottle of 5L which has a pop-up spout within the cap. I'll dig for my last invoice for the price of the 8100 if you guys want. I usually buy mine at the Mitsubishi dealer in Blainville (Boisvert Mitsu, the guys who rally race an evo5 and an evo4).
antoine
FlyinMSP
07-08-2005, 12:42 PM
In other words, Club members will be able to buy Torco SR-1 semi-synthetic motor oil for around $10 CDN per liter.
Emre
I've tried SR-1 and it's a great oil! But it's supposed to be full synth. isn't it? I also got it cheaper than that. It's good oil but not a huge difference from Mobil 1 though...
was at trac the other day and... I got mesmerized by those nice shiny motul canisters and ended up getting 6L of 300v...
This 300v is new motul double-ester based oil, compared to old motul 300v it's supposed to be even better.
I can't believe I'm such a sucker... :o
http://homepage3.nifty.com/rm-works/newpower2.jpg
was at trac the other day and... I got mesmerized by those nice shiny motul canisters and ended up getting 6L of 300v...How much per liter is it selling for?
This 300v is new motul double-ester based oil, compared to old motul 300v it's supposed to be even better.I'm going to try the Torco SR-5 ester in my E30 for now. Maybe we can get the Torco guys to throw in some oil analysis tests to see how it holds up to serious track use.
Emre
bmwqc
07-09-2005, 05:20 PM
How much did the Motul oil cost?
How much per liter is it selling for?
I'm going to try the Torco SR-5 ester in my E30 for now. Maybe we can get the Torco guys to throw in some oil analysis tests to see how it holds up to serious track use.
Emre
Whatever you do, do your own analysis. It's not expensive, and will certainly be more legitimate... That's what I intend to do too.
I will monitor the use I make vs oil consumption during this period, and have an UOA done at 5000kms.
Right now I flush every 3 months no matter the milleage as per Nissan reccomendations... (overkill)
If the 300v UOA is good it means I can go longer, ultimately maybe being able to go a whole summer without flushing just topping off. This would make motul 300v somewhat cost effective...
If the UOA is not good enough, I go back to M1 and frequent flushes.
I do very little stop and go traffic, so it should be a good test. It will be mostly highway, a couple track schools and few dragstrip runs (after mecaglisse, I have to say dragstrip has lost a lot of appeal :)).
I paid Motul 18$ liter(JF gave me 10% discount)... it's expensive.
flukester
07-09-2005, 06:55 PM
BTW, my dealer ran out of Motul Econergy 8100 and gave me the 300v at the same price as the 8100.. Any of you guys want some, I can probably get some more for the same price (but not forever..). Should we stock up?
I must say that Torco seems quite interesting too...
antoine
BTW, my dealer ran out of Motul Econergy 8100 and gave me the 300v at the same price as the 8100.. Any of you guys want some, I can probably get some more for the same price (but not forever..). Should we stock up?
I must say that Torco seems quite interesting too...
antoine
that's a real bargain! (if it's the new double-ester 300v, not the old one).
300v is more than double the price of the 8100 series.
I am not sure yet I will go motul in the future though... so I'm ok for now.
drevaen
07-10-2005, 09:35 PM
If your current engine is not much modified, like under 50% more power than the original power, the 300V is useless. The 8100 range is good enough for street use even abusive spirited driving. The 300v is specially made not to loose its properties under a short amount of time(Like racing) It can run with as much as 20% of fuel in the oil without loosing viscosity. Torco, Mobil One and many other brands claim they have 100% sythetic oil, but they still use Hydrocracked base oil, wich is mineral. Please gentlemen, before comparing prices, read what the product is made of. Like comparing a BMW 330CI and a Cadillac CTS(example)
If you have questions for motul: motul@motulcanada.ca
JM Alcaraz will be more than happy to answer your questions.
Torco, Mobil One and many other brands claim they have 100% sythetic oil, but they still use Hydrocracked base oil, wich is mineral. Please gentlemen, before comparing prices, read what the product is made of. Like comparing a BMW 330CI and a Cadillac CTS(example).The SR-5 is, in fact, a fully-synthetic oil with an ester base. You're right that the SR-1, Mobil-1, and many others that claim to be "100% synthetic" are not. Blame Castrol for that ;)
Emre
Torco is now sponsoring our chapter and will give us tech sessions where, hopefully, they will try to be as impartial as possible. If Motul wants to promote its products, we will be more than happy to give them a chance. What does Motul wishes to do to promote its products with the club?
I believe that most of us will still use semi-synthetic products will long term detergents such as Mobil One as it cost an average of $7.50 per litre. But a few of us will start using fully-synthetic products for track weekends, especially those with souped-up motors (like my 170HP M10 fed by two gaz guzzling Webers 45mm).
Torco is now sponsoring our chapter and will give us tech sessions where, hopefully, they will try to be as impartial as possible. If Motul wants to promote its products, we will be more than happy to give them a chance. What does Motul wishes to do to promote its products with the club?
From what I have been told by the shrewd(and nice :)) people at trac, motul does not sponsor. The history, records and achievements of Motul in the full motorsport spectrum are already an absolute testament to the superlative quality of their products... they do not need to sponsor(* see note) .
I also have to say that everyone at Trac just hates torco like the black plague... they hate it with such a passion that they would not even put that stuff in their lawnmowers (I did not understand clearly if they have had direct bad experiences, but from what I have been told, Torco is so bad that it is guaranteed to instantly grenade the engine)... Personally, in my research online I have not found any mention of such "catastrophic disasters"... some people even had good results and seem to be happy with it.
(note) Motul is kind enough to provide a series of Motul leaflets with their own Motul tests and Motul charts that incontrovertibly prove that motul is ,incidently, the best lubricant in the universe... by far. ;)
bmwqc
07-11-2005, 12:19 AM
Of course if they are pushing Motul products with such passion, they are obviously not going to give the thumbs up to a competitor's similar products.
"I also have to say that everyone at Trac just hates torco like the black plague... they hate it with such a passion that they would not even put that stuff in their lawnmowers (I did not understand clearly if they have had direct bad experiences, but from what I have been told, Torco is so bad that it is guaranteed to instantly grenade any engine)..."
From what I have been told by the shrewd(and nice :)) people at trac, motul does not sponsor. The history, records and achievements of Motul in the full motorsport spectrum are already an absolute testament to the superlative quality of their products... they do not need to sponsor(* see note) Well, just 3 posts ahead of yours you'll find a picture of a car covered with Motul stickers. So, it's safe to say that Motul does, indeed, sponsor :p
I also have to say that everyone at Trac just hates torco like the black plague... they hate it with such a passion that they would not even put that stuff in their lawnmowers (I did not understand clearly if they have had direct bad experiences, but from what I have been told, Torco is so bad that it is guaranteed to instantly grenade the engine)... Personally, in my research online I have not found any mention of such "catastrophic disasters"... some people even had good results and seem to be happy with it.Wow...people at Trac Racing lying and badmouthing competitors!? Say it isn't so! ;)
Look, you can put Motomaster in your car and it isn't going to cause the engine to blow up. It won't work well and won't give you great protection on the track...but it won't blow up.
Besides, I hardly think a Toyota Echo has such a highly-stressed engine as to demand such exotic lubricants! I'm sure the 108 hp from that massive 1,497cc 4-banger is a lot of engine for the boys at Trac Racing to deal with...but really, let's get a grip :rolleyes:
Emre
Torco is now sponsoring our chapter and will give us tech sessions where, hopefully, they will try to be as impartial as possible. If Motul wants to promote its products, we will be more than happy to give them a chance. What does Motul wish to do to promote its products with the club?Exactly. From everything I have seen and heard, Torco has established itself as a legitimate producer of high-octane race fuel as well as both semi-synthetic and fully sythetic drivetrain lubricants for both street and racing use. They're very popular in the USA among NHRA and IHRA drag racers, which is certainly no less hard on engines than a 30 minute track session. Personally, I feel that their products are worth giving a try.
I'm very happy that Torco has signed on as a Platinum Sponsor and is willing to offer significant discounts to our membership. They recognize that the unique membership base of the BMW Club of Quebec and the types of events we run would give them terrific local exposure. If Motul feels the same, we're happy to hear from them.
I believe that most of us will still use semi-synthetic products will long term detergents such as Mobil One as it cost an average of $7.50 per litre. But a few of us will start using fully-synthetic products for track weekends, especially those with souped-up motors (like my 170HP M10 fed by two gaz guzzling Webers 45mm).So far, I have been using semi-sythetics (mostly Mobil 1) both in my turbocharged street car and in my N/A track car. I'm not conviced that I need (or want) some exotic, full-synthetic, ester base engine oil...which is why I have avoided the expense and stuck with Mobil 1. But now that the price is right and it helps a Club sponsor, I will certainly give it a shot.
Emre
drevaen
07-11-2005, 06:03 AM
Emre, the Motul sponsered car is JM Alcaraz, the east coast distributor for Motul. BTW Its only stickers. The sponsorship is limited this year to the Quebec rally championship, and the FAQ Touring-GTO/GTU-F1600 chanpionship. After a 20% worldwide price raise, its hard to sponsor everyone.
For those who want more info on Motul Oils:
http://www.motulcanada.ca/pdf/8100_0W40.pdf
http://www.motulcanada.ca/pdf/300V_15W50.pdf
I don't work for Motul but I think they have great products, and its the only oil company that sells the same oil they sell to Prodrive, Mugen, Jaguar, BMW France, Nismo....;)
drevaen
07-11-2005, 09:24 AM
Nano,
The big deal with TRAC and Torco is that The Echo Cup last year was sponsored(I dont know for this year) by Torco, and the Echo Cup Cars of TRAC were sponsored by Motul, so the people from Torco were not happy about that and did everything to have the Motul stickers removed from all the cars. I dont have the details of how it turned out but I'm sure it wasn't fun.
The big deal with TRAC and Torco is that The Echo Cup last year was sponsored(I dont know for this year) by Torco, and the Echo Cup Cars of TRAC were sponsored by Motul, so the people from Torco were not happy about that and did everything to have the Motul stickers removed from all the cars. I dont have the details of how it turned out but I'm sure it wasn't fun.Whatever happened between Trac Racing and Torco, I think it's very unprofessional the way Trac has been mercilessly bashing their products on all the message boards. To insist that SR-5 will cause your engine to blow up (as they do on MontrealRacing.com) is plainly ridiculous. If there's a personal issue between them, they should deal with it in a manner more befitting professional businessmen.
I don't work for Motul but I think they have great products, and its the only oil company that sells the same oil they sell to Prodrive, Mugen, Jaguar, BMW France, Nismo....All of us here are motorsports enthusiasts, and we all respect Motul products. But there's plenty of room in the market for other brands. The bottom line is that Torco offers some products that are worth checking out. They have generously become sponsors of our Club and are really trying to give our members some added value. The enthusiasm that Carl and the rest of the Torco team have towards their product line is clear and I'm sure we'll have a great season together. If the products are in the same league as Motul (and I have no reason to believe otherwise) but end up costing less due to Torco's support of our Club, then I'm more than willing to give them a shot.
Personally, I've just taken delivery of their SR-5 in 20w50, RTF tranny lube, RGO gear lube, and LSD friction modifier. I'll flush the tranny and diff plus do an oil change on the E30 this week before Tremblant and the Glen. We'll see how everything holds up on the track.
Emre
If the products are in the same league as Motul (and I have no reason to believe otherwise) but end up costing less due to Torco's support of our Club, then I'm more than willing to give them a shot...
Emre
What does Torco Sr-5 smell like? eh?
Motul 300v smells like candy!!! Try to beat that!!!
;)
What does Torco Sr-5 smell like? eh?It's got this wierd, sugary smell.
Emre
drevaen
07-12-2005, 09:28 AM
Emre,
Did you get my Email?
as promised, I had the oil analysed.
and I just received my oil analysis.
The oil analysis was done at Blackstone Labs in texas. They are leader in this stuff.
I did 2000miles (3200 kms) on motul 300v. In that period, I did mecaglisse, tremblant and ~20-30 dragstrip runs.
TBN(total base number) was 8.4 - meaning it has LOTS of reserve acid fighting ability = it can go MUCH longer between drain intervals.
In my case, the engine has shown a slight above average piston wear(still very minor) and oil had above average traces of silicon and sodium(dirt). This is 99.99999% due to the bigass K&N filter I'm using... :D.
the expert conclusion was:
the engine needs a bit better air filtration to limit wear at the top end of the engine, while ensuring good air flow. Once I get your feedback I can assist fine tuning. This is a wonderful oil chemistry and should continue to work well for your needs.
Conclusion: 300v is awesome oil and perfectly safe for street use.
and I just received my oil analysis.
The oil analysis was done at Blackstone Labs in texas. They are leader in this stuff.Can you give us some more info about this? I'm interested in doing this soon for the Torco SR-5 Racing Oil currently in my Evo.
Emre
Can you give us some more info about this? I'm interested in doing this soon for the Torco SR-5 Racing Oil currently in my Evo.
Emre
http://www.blackstone-labs.com
order ---> free test kit (you will receive the kit in the mail)
as a first analysis I reccomend the "dyson analysis" it will greatly help you understand the report.
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/dyson_analysis.html
Make sure to let him know
Air filter you are using
Oil filter you are using
Fuel you are using
and how the car is driven and if any works has been done on the engine and anything that could be relevant.
that guy is the Yoda(to put it in mstrblstr's terms) of oil :D
bmwqc
09-15-2005, 03:42 PM
I always had some misgivings about K & N filters. It lets in more air but also lets in more dust, especially when the filter gets dry and needs oiling.
HW
In my case, the engine has shown a slight above average piston wear(still very minor) and oil had above average traces of silicon and sodium(dirt). This is 99.99999% due to the bigass K&N filter I'm using... :D.
I always had some misgivings about K & N filters. It lets in more air but also lets in more dust, especially when the filter gets dry and needs oiling.
HW
it's true...
but you got to give something somwhere to get something somewhere else. Can't have everything ;)
K&N filters are fine, Just don't do extended (5000miles+) drain intervals...
When they are dirty, they actually filter dirt better. Dirt + oil becomes a filtering medium itself. the WORST thing you can do with a K&N filter is clean it too often. Their filtering capacity is lowest when they are clean and just oiled.
I did have a bit above average wear... but the use I do with the car is not average ;). It's so minor it's almost irrelevant
bmwqc
09-15-2005, 04:58 PM
True enough, if you run the engine/filter for an extended period and let the dirt accumulate on the K & N filter, it actually filters better, but then it also cuts down the potential airflow into the engine, so that kind of defeats the purpose of using it in the first place (to get more airflow = performance).
However having said that, I am using K & N filters in both my cars. On the Explorer, almost from day one, and with over 200,000 km, the engine stills runs good.
HW
.
When they are dirty, they actually filter dirt better. Dirt + oil becomes a filtering medium itself. the WORST thing you can do with a K&N filter is clean it too often. Their filtering capacity is lowest when they are clean and just oiled.
yeah, you'd want to maximize airflow and filtration. Depends on where and how you use the car. I found that cleaning it once per year... in spring, after winter storage is pretty much the sweat spot for me. It's still relatively clean, never gets extremely dirty.
I always had some misgivings about K & N filters. It lets in more air but also lets in more dust, especially when the filter gets dry and needs oiling.Sure. But then again, that's what your engine oil is for. Tiny particles will always get through your air filter (though it's certainly a bit worse with oiled gauze designs). As long as those particles get trapped in your motor oil it's no big deal. Hell, Lee was running his '02 with open intake trumpets for a while! As Tex says, as long as you change your oil and filter regularly, it shouldn't be a big deal.
Emre
FlyinMSP
09-16-2005, 10:34 AM
Try "Green" filters. They are pretty good and filter more than K&N
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